CL : Barca - Olympiakos 6-1

[Maradona37]

Think you got to ride the dips like Kloppball. Just at Barcelona you can't have down seasons as bad as Pool had.

Team isn't looking good at all right now. But here's hoping that we are building to peak for second half while working out the tactical kinks.

LEs PSG were licorice all sorts this time last year too.

Yeah but PSG don't have Real and Atletico in their league. I am with you, too, I said that they were poor first half of the season.

I'd like Barca to win the treble but with this system, this coach, and these players, I just cannot see it. Plus Barca haven't won the CL for 10 years, and there seems to be a mental block there. A block that would make me doubt that a much better collection of players than these, and a much better coach, could win it again. Never mind this lot.

I mean I get it's Barca forum, I am not a Barca fan, so I don't wanna rub it in too much. But who are the TRULY brilliant players in this squad? I don't mean rashford or Lopez who get wanked over for the odd good game against lesser teams, like tonight.

Who are the guys who are genuine CL or La Liga title difference makers, and wouldn't look out of place in Pep's Barca squad? Pedri for sure, Lamine on form for sure. Garcia looks a good goalkeeper, I think De Jong is a good midfielder. The defence is woeful - as others say Garcia and Cubarsi are soft as fuck, Kounde is absent-minded, the left-back Martin tries but isn't that good, Balde is overrated. Casado doesn't seem up to much in mf, Lewa is finished. Torres gets arse-licked on here but he will never ever be a difference maker come the end of the season, Raphinha is a one-season wonder.

Maybe I am taking a very negative view of the above players.

The rest of them really aren't special at all. But as I said to @RedxMAK and @MonteCuler nd they said back, football is in a lull right now and most squads are not that impressive, not just Barca's. So they still have hope.

But playing this kamikaze high line that Flick insists on you really lessen your chances. I have never thought Flick is the god that Birdy, delancey, Temptation and others make him out to be on here. I don't think he's as clueless as Messi983 or IniestaGOAT do, but I think he's just a 'good' coach and no more. There's so many holes in the way he sets his team out. Tbh it would have been punished in La Liga last season too if Atletico and Real hadn't been abject.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Embarassing or not, this is the actual physical state of the team. They run 4km less per game than last season on everage. You don't solve this in 2 weeks, this will take 1-2 months at least.

Exactly. We are being out run by Olympiakos of the world.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Big win but result masks the performance as game was changed with that soft second yellow. Olympiakos were dangerous and gaining momentum.

Happy with all those goals but Flick will have a lot to do until Clasico.

I agree with this. 60min was painful or till they get the red.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Seems this team is due another humiliation or a real turnaround. Can't think of any good game we had this season. Even when beating some bums we manage to look bad.

Unlucky with injuries, but general level and commitment from players is way off.

Home game vs Valencia was good, but yes agree.

 

[Porque]

Yeah but PSG don't have Real and Atletico in their league. I am with you, too, I said that they were poor first half of the season.

I'd like Barca to win the treble but with this system, this coach, and these players, I just cannot see it. Plus Barca haven't won the CL for 10 years, and there seems to be a mental block there. A block that would make me doubt that a much better collection of players than these, and a much better coach, could win it again. Never mind this lot.

I mean I get it's Barca forum, I am not a Barca fan, so I don't wanna rub it in too much. But who are the TRULY brilliant players in this squad? I don't mean rashford or Lopez who get wanked over for the odd good game against lesser teams, like tonight.

Who are the guys who are genuine CL or La Liga title difference makers, and wouldn't look out of place in Pep's Barca squad? Pedri for sure, Lamine on form for sure. Garcia looks a good goalkeeper, I think De Jong is a good midfielder. The defence is woeful - as others say Garcia and Cubarsi are soft as fuck, Kounde is absent-minded, the left-back Martin tries but isn't that good, Balde is overrated. Casado doesn't seem up to much in mf, Lewa is finished. Torres gets arse-licked on here but he will never ever be a difference maker come the end of the season, Raphinha is a one-season wonder.

Maybe I am taking a very negative view of the above players.

The rest of them really aren't special at all. But as I said to @RedxMAK and @MonteCuler nd they said back, football is in a lull right now and most squads are not that impressive, not just Barca's. So they still have hope.

But playing this kamikaze high line that Flick insists on you really lessen your chances. I have never thought Flick is the god that Birdy, delancey, Temptation and others make him out to be on here. I don't think he's as clueless as Messi983 or IniestaGOAT do, but I think he's just a 'good' coach and no more. There's so many holes in the way he sets his team out. Tbh it would have been punished in La Liga last season too if Atletico and Real hadn't been abject.

Good post.

Our best player is that Flick brings the utmost level out of everyone in the attacking phase. Of course to do that you have to, partly, overload the attacking phase with speed, numbers and high position holding.

And this can make good players like Ferran- great. And bring up the numbers of guys like Raphi and Rashford.

Depth wise the quality isn't there like the other top 6 clubs in Europe and we don't have the money to buy the depth. It is what it is.

Let's take Casado for example. He is probably showing his limitations right now and is being exposed the longer he is in first team dynamics.

Without the FFP issues the club might have cashed in and re-invested. His first 2/3 months were outstanding and a surprise, but I don't think Flick ever truly rated him.

And now we're seeing for a prolonged period that started last season of a lower more worrying level.

So yeah, the issue right now is that and that the defenders are performing individually tosh, and that systematically after that we are not pressing the transitions well enough. Which is partly physical.

And for what isn't physical, we can't outbuy the deficiencies and are having to give starting positions to Erics, Casados, Dros and Ton Ee.

And Ton Ee is fookin' Chinese. They don't even play football over there!

 

[malvolio]

I don't like our performances either but think we'll rise to occasion against Real.

Won't win shit for sure if players like Jamal and some others don't start pressing again.

Yeah, in Clasico all bets are off. So probably a roller-coaster of a match.

 

[Maradona37]

Good post.

Our best player is that Flick brings the utmost level out of everyone in the attacking phase. Of course to do that you have to, partly, overload the attacking phase with speed and numbers.

And this can make good players like Ferran- great. And bring up the numbers of guys like Raphi and Rashford.

Depth wise the quality isn't there like the other top 6 clubs in Europe and we don't have the money to buy the depth. It is what it is.

Let's take Casado for example. He is probably showing his limitations right now and is being exposed the longer he is in first team dynamics.

Without the FFP issues the club might have cashed in and re-invested. His first 2/3 months were outstanding and a surprise, but I don't think Flick ever truly rated him.

And now we're seeing for a prolonged period that started last season of a lower more worrying level.

So yeah, the issue right now is that and that the defenders are performing individually tosh, and that systematically after that we are not pressing the transitions well enough. Which is partly physical.

And for what isn't physical, we can't outbuy the deficiencies and are having to give starting positions to Erics, Casados, Dros and Ton Ee.

And Ton Ee is fookin' Chinese. They don't even play football over there!

Lol yeah, thanks. I agree with most of that.

Tbh I thought people would take offence as that reads very anti-Barca. But it is not that. I am simply calling it as I see it. I like Barca and Pep's Barca are the best team I have ever seen, but I am honest and if I don't rate players or coaches I will say so, whether I like a club or not.

Other than Pedri and Yamal, and to a lesser extent the goalkeeper and de Jong, none of these guys are near CL winning quality, and won't be winning La Liga against a strong Real Madrid either.

But Flick really doesn't help - he sets this team up to fail by playing to their weaknesses rather than their strengths - which is the opposite of what a good coach should do. He cost the Inter tie too with his naivety. It won't stop his fans on here making excuses for him, though.

 

[Maradona37]

Overall, there's a lot of players on here who get talked about like they're superstars when they're just good, or even average. People need to get a reality check.

@malvolio gets accused of hating Barca for his negative slant - I don't think so. I think he just has high standards and is used to Barca having world-class players, and can see that very few of these players are Barca level (or Barca of the past, anyway).

He has been proved spot on too about selling Raphinha when he was running hot and his stock was high. I said the same thing. He will never hit the heights again that he did last season, because he was simply a 'good' player playing way above his true level on a hot streak.

 

[Porque]

Lol yeah, thanks. I agree with most of that.

Tbh I thought people would take offence as that reads very anti-Barca. But it is not that. I am simply calling it as I see it. I like Barca and Pep's Barca are the best team I have ever seen, but I am honest and if I don't rate players or coaches I will say so, whether I like a club or not.

Other than Pedri and Yamal, and to a lesser extent the goalkeeper and de Jong, none of these guys are near CL winning quality, and won't be winning La Liga against a strong Real Madrid either.

But Flick really doesn't help - he sets this team up to fail by playing to their weaknesses rather than their strengths - which is the opposite of what a good coach should do. He cost the Inter tie too with his naivety. It won't stop his fans on here making excuses for him, though.

You should know this place by now. We would only be offended if you were a PSG fan.

You might be underrating a few of our players. But as you, or another, were saying before, the number of world class players has diminished. While the number of athletic system players has increased.

Take the Barcelona AMCs right now though. Fermin and Olmo. Most would have taken Wirtz over him in these player assessments 3 months ago or anytime prior.

But seeing Wirtz now at Liverpool, it doesn't really matter as he is giving them less than what either are giving Barcelona under Flick.

And that's basically what matters.

Can we win the CL with this group? Yes, if we reach a prolonged period close to our peak.

Same goes with LaLiga.

Will we beat Madrid this weekend? I don't think so, and I'm not feeling confident in the refereeing either.

Btw you watching Atleti-Arsenal? Not a great game but their pretty even in all departments.

 

[Richard.H]

Scoreline is too flattering

 

[Maradona37]

You should know this place by now. We would only be offended if you were a PSG fan.

You might be underrating a few of our players. But as you, or another, were saying before, the number of world class players has diminished. While the number of athletic system players has increased.

Take the Barcelona AMCs right now though. Fermin and Olmo. Most would have taken Wirtz over him in these player assessments 3 months ago or anytime prior.

But seeing Wirtz now at Liverpool, it doesn't really matter as he is giving them less than what either are giving Barcelona under Flick.

And that's basically what matters.

Can we win the CL with this group? Yes, if we reach a prolonged period close to our peak.

Same goes with LaLiga.

Will we beat Madrid this weekend? I don't think so, and I'm not feeling confident in the refereeing either.

Btw you watching Atleti-Arsenal? Not a great game but their pretty even in all departments.

Yeah they can win stuff. But the point is, you wouldn't bank on it, and Flick is actively sabotaging the team.

Not for the first time, that high line against Girona was absolutely suicidal. If he does that against good teams it's begging for trouble. It isn't even 'high risk', it is flat out stupidity. Then he went and got himself sent off for good measure.

Nah I am not watching it. And yes, that is what gives me hope for Barca - that most squads in general are worse, as is the quality of technical player (although as you note athleticism has improved).

And yeah, most on here don't really get offended by much. But I am just saying given the 10 years, mental block, and systemic issues, it would take a brave man to bet on Barca winning the CL.

La Liga is more up for debate, but Real Madrid seem to be a bit stronger. But hey, as people say, Clasicos form goes out the window so maybe Barca will win.

It's not that I think most of Barca's players are rubbish - it's that I don't think they're Barca level, or what should be Barca level. Those are two very different things.

Of course, every squad has stronger and weaker players, but there's not enough truly top players in Barca's squad, and Flick exacerbates the issues with his clueless tactics.

 

[Barcaman]

"Barca doesn't have elite players and Flick makes it worse with his tactics"
This is, basically, what you are saying.

Fact that Barca remains among top contenders is testament to Flick. Having to play with Scezny, Roony, Dro, Rashford (who was dead a year ago), Martin, grandpa Lewa, Eric, etc.

He's a miracle worker.

 

[Porque]

Yeah they can win stuff. But the point is, you wouldn't bank on it, and Flick is actively sabotaging the team.

Not for the first time, that high line against Girona was absolutely suicidal. If he does that against good teams it's begging for trouble. It isn't even 'high risk', it is flat out stupidity. Then he went and got himself sent off for good measure.

Nah I am not watching it. And yes, that is what gives me hope for Barca - that most squads in general are worse, as is the quality of technical player (although as you note athleticism has improved).

And yeah, most on here don't really get offended by much. But I am just saying given the 10 years, mental block, and systemic issues, it would take a brave man to bet on Barca winning the CL.

La Liga is more up for debate, but Real Madrid seem to be a bit stronger. But hey, as people say, Clasicos form goes out the window so maybe Barca will win.

It's not that I think most of Barca's players are rubbish - it's that I don't think they're Barca level, or what should be Barca level. Those are two very different things.

Of course, every squad has stronger and weaker players, but there's not enough truly top players in Barca's squad, and Flick exacerbates the issues with his clueless tactics.

If we are talking about Flicks football, it that it has a rather obvious flaw that in a KO game can be exposed by one action if you are against a world class opponent.

That is and always will be the issue.

Right now I think we are seeing that the system is not working for a number of issues. And rightly or wrongly we are going through it until it does, because of how early we are in the season.

Now what happened to our physical preparations that was so highly touted this time last year is anyone's idea.
Hopefully it's to end the season fitter, and not that everyone stopped working hard after one season.

I do think btw that we are on a good road until the first international break, and then we got some key injuries and things went to shit.

Then the second break and more injuries.

But why the injuries. Is the other million dollar question.

Especially as Barca never had the CWC and a full off season.

 

[Maradona37]

"Barca doesn't have elite players and Flick makes it worse with his tactics"
This is, basically, what you are saying.

Fact that Barca remains among top contenders is testament to Flick. Having to play with Scezny, Roony, Dro, Rashford (who was dead a year ago), Martin, grandpa Lewa, Eric, etc.

He's a miracle worker.

That's very flattering to Flick. And no offence, but I don't think Barca are top contenders. In prestige of the club, yes, but I would be extremely surprised if they were crowned European champions this season.

As @malvolio says, even with those weaker players, they still have better players than most teams in La Liga.

In the CL last season (other than an early game against Bayern) they beat nobody of note and failed their first big test in the semis against Inter.

As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out on him, and the turgid performances this season I saw coming and are proving me right.

You're still winning, quite fortunately. But keep up this level of performance and you are in for a rude awakening. It is simply not sustainable.

 

[Maradona37]

If we are talking about Flicks football, it that it has a rather obvious flaw that in a KO game can be exposed by one action if you are against a world class opponent.

That is and always will be the issue.

Right now I think we are seeing that the system is not working for a number of issues. And rightly or wrongly we are going through it until it does, because of how early we are in the season.

Now what happened to our physical preparations that was so highly touted this time last year is anyone's idea.
Hopefully it's to end the season fitter, and not that everyone stopped working hard after one season.

I do think btw that we are on a good road until the first international break, and then we got some key injuries and things went to shit.

Then the second break and more injuries.

But why the injuries. Is the other million dollar question.

Especially as Barca never had the CWC and a full off season.

Yeah I agree, especially with that first line. His tactics are too volatile and too much of a lottery.

His tactics are also extremely athleticism dependent, more so than actual football ability, and I dislike that in a coach. As @Messi983 says, it is no surprise your players are dropping like flies. This guy expects them to be the fittest team on the planet. And when you look at most of these players, they aren't even the most athletic of footballers. Yet this guy is trying to make them play as such. He has no depth yet he's making these guys try to run so hard when there's still 7 months of the season left. Seriously, is the guy stupid?

I just think he's too dogmatic and stuck to his system, and won't change it even in the face of it falling apart. He's like a better Ruben Amorim, in that respect.

I don't even like his system when it does work. I think his ultra high line is absolute dogshit and relies on a lot of luck and fine margins, even when it does work.