CL : Barca - Olympiakos 6-1

[Maradona37]

You should know this place by now. We would only be offended if you were a PSG fan.

You might be underrating a few of our players. But as you, or another, were saying before, the number of world class players has diminished. While the number of athletic system players has increased.

Take the Barcelona AMCs right now though. Fermin and Olmo. Most would have taken Wirtz over him in these player assessments 3 months ago or anytime prior.

But seeing Wirtz now at Liverpool, it doesn't really matter as he is giving them less than what either are giving Barcelona under Flick.

And that's basically what matters.

Can we win the CL with this group? Yes, if we reach a prolonged period close to our peak.

Same goes with LaLiga.

Will we beat Madrid this weekend? I don't think so, and I'm not feeling confident in the refereeing either.

Btw you watching Atleti-Arsenal? Not a great game but their pretty even in all departments.

Yeah they can win stuff. But the point is, you wouldn't bank on it, and Flick is actively sabotaging the team.

Not for the first time, that high line against Girona was absolutely suicidal. If he does that against good teams it's begging for trouble. It isn't even 'high risk', it is flat out stupidity. Then he went and got himself sent off for good measure.

Nah I am not watching it. And yes, that is what gives me hope for Barca - that most squads in general are worse, as is the quality of technical player (although as you note athleticism has improved).

And yeah, most on here don't really get offended by much. But I am just saying given the 10 years, mental block, and systemic issues, it would take a brave man to bet on Barca winning the CL.

La Liga is more up for debate, but Real Madrid seem to be a bit stronger. But hey, as people say, Clasicos form goes out the window so maybe Barca will win.

It's not that I think most of Barca's players are rubbish - it's that I don't think they're Barca level, or what should be Barca level. Those are two very different things.

Of course, every squad has stronger and weaker players, but there's not enough truly top players in Barca's squad, and Flick exacerbates the issues with his clueless tactics.

 

[Barcaman]

"Barca doesn't have elite players and Flick makes it worse with his tactics"
This is, basically, what you are saying.

Fact that Barca remains among top contenders is testament to Flick. Having to play with Scezny, Roony, Dro, Rashford (who was dead a year ago), Martin, grandpa Lewa, Eric, etc.

He's a miracle worker.

 

[Porque]

Yeah they can win stuff. But the point is, you wouldn't bank on it, and Flick is actively sabotaging the team.

Not for the first time, that high line against Girona was absolutely suicidal. If he does that against good teams it's begging for trouble. It isn't even 'high risk', it is flat out stupidity. Then he went and got himself sent off for good measure.

Nah I am not watching it. And yes, that is what gives me hope for Barca - that most squads in general are worse, as is the quality of technical player (although as you note athleticism has improved).

And yeah, most on here don't really get offended by much. But I am just saying given the 10 years, mental block, and systemic issues, it would take a brave man to bet on Barca winning the CL.

La Liga is more up for debate, but Real Madrid seem to be a bit stronger. But hey, as people say, Clasicos form goes out the window so maybe Barca will win.

It's not that I think most of Barca's players are rubbish - it's that I don't think they're Barca level, or what should be Barca level. Those are two very different things.

Of course, every squad has stronger and weaker players, but there's not enough truly top players in Barca's squad, and Flick exacerbates the issues with his clueless tactics.

If we are talking about Flicks football, it that it has a rather obvious flaw that in a KO game can be exposed by one action if you are against a world class opponent.

That is and always will be the issue.

Right now I think we are seeing that the system is not working for a number of issues. And rightly or wrongly we are going through it until it does, because of how early we are in the season.

Now what happened to our physical preparations that was so highly touted this time last year is anyone's idea.
Hopefully it's to end the season fitter, and not that everyone stopped working hard after one season.

I do think btw that we are on a good road until the first international break, and then we got some key injuries and things went to shit.

Then the second break and more injuries.

But why the injuries. Is the other million dollar question.

Especially as Barca never had the CWC and a full off season.

 

[Maradona37]

"Barca doesn't have elite players and Flick makes it worse with his tactics"
This is, basically, what you are saying.

Fact that Barca remains among top contenders is testament to Flick. Having to play with Scezny, Roony, Dro, Rashford (who was dead a year ago), Martin, grandpa Lewa, Eric, etc.

He's a miracle worker.

That's very flattering to Flick. And no offence, but I don't think Barca are top contenders. In prestige of the club, yes, but I would be extremely surprised if they were crowned European champions this season.

As @malvolio says, even with those weaker players, they still have better players than most teams in La Liga.

In the CL last season (other than an early game against Bayern) they beat nobody of note and failed their first big test in the semis against Inter.

As far as I am concerned, the jury is still out on him, and the turgid performances this season I saw coming and are proving me right.

You're still winning, quite fortunately. But keep up this level of performance and you are in for a rude awakening. It is simply not sustainable.

 

[Maradona37]

If we are talking about Flicks football, it that it has a rather obvious flaw that in a KO game can be exposed by one action if you are against a world class opponent.

That is and always will be the issue.

Right now I think we are seeing that the system is not working for a number of issues. And rightly or wrongly we are going through it until it does, because of how early we are in the season.

Now what happened to our physical preparations that was so highly touted this time last year is anyone's idea.
Hopefully it's to end the season fitter, and not that everyone stopped working hard after one season.

I do think btw that we are on a good road until the first international break, and then we got some key injuries and things went to shit.

Then the second break and more injuries.

But why the injuries. Is the other million dollar question.

Especially as Barca never had the CWC and a full off season.

Yeah I agree, especially with that first line. His tactics are too volatile and too much of a lottery.

His tactics are also extremely athleticism dependent, more so than actual football ability, and I dislike that in a coach. As @Messi983 says, it is no surprise your players are dropping like flies. This guy expects them to be the fittest team on the planet. And when you look at most of these players, they aren't even the most athletic of footballers. Yet this guy is trying to make them play as such. He has no depth yet he's making these guys try to run so hard when there's still 7 months of the season left. Seriously, is the guy stupid?

I just think he's too dogmatic and stuck to his system, and won't change it even in the face of it falling apart. He's like a better Ruben Amorim, in that respect.

I don't even like his system when it does work. I think his ultra high line is absolute dogshit and relies on a lot of luck and fine margins, even when it does work.

 

[Porque]

Yeah I agree, especially with that first line. His tactics are too volatile and too much of a lottery.

His tactics are also extremely athleticism dependent, more so than actual football ability, and I dislike that in a coach. As @Messi983 says, it is no surprise your players are dropping like flies. This guy expects them to be the fittest team on the planet. And when you look at most of these players, they aren't even the most athletic of footballers. Yet this guy is trying to make them play as such. He has no depth yet he's making these guys try to run so hard when there's still 7 months of the season left. Seriously, is the guy stupid?

I just think he's too dogmatic and stuck to his system, and won't change it even in the face of it falling apart. He's like a better Ruben Amorim, in that respect.

I don't even like his system when it does work. I think his ultra high line is absolute dogshit and relies on a lot of luck and fine margins, even when it does work.

That's fair. Conversely. I enjoy his football because from the end of the LE era up until Flick our football was way too safe, Pitty pasa, Messi and inshallah with physicality taking a backseat.

So it has been what I have wanted to see Barca play like since the death of tiki taka.

But yes he does take it to extremes, but in a more balanced and nuanced way than Bobby Robson did for us.

And when we hit form, it was entertaining to watch with our players top level technical, or already the three/four of them.

I think we beaten this track as well as we could have. Come June one of us will be right, or more right than the other .

So to more important matters. Absolum. Did you have a flutter at it? It's launch price is only about 20GBP. I'm gonna watch a play through on it in a bit since it seems the CL games are over already.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

"Barca doesn't have elite players and Flick makes it worse with his tactics"
This is, basically, what you are saying.

Fact that Barca remains among top contenders is testament to Flick. Having to play with Scezny, Roony, Dro, Rashford (who was dead a year ago), Martin, grandpa Lewa, Eric, etc.

He's a miracle worker.

True. We haven't given him much. He is a miracle worker for me. Especially last season. Now his team has come back to earth a bit.

 

[Maradona37]

That's fair. Conversely. I enjoy his football because from the end of the LE era up until Flick our football was way too safe, Pitty pasa, Messi and inshallah with physicality taking a backseat.

So it has been what I have wanted to see Barca play like since the death of tiki taka.

But yes he does take it to extremes, but in a more balanced and nuanced way than Bobby Robson did for us.

I think we beaten this track as well as we could have. Come June one of us will be right, or more right than the other .

So to more important matters. Absolum. Did you have a flutter at it? It's launch price is only about 20GBP. I'm gonna watch a play through on it in a bit since it seems the CL games are over already.

It's 100mph football and lacks nuance and subtlety. His football beats you over the head with a hammer. I don't like that, or the German style of coaching in general (even though I rate Klopp).

Also, none of these German coaches can defend adequately. We see it in BL too, with scored like 6-4 every week.

Nah I haven't had a go of it yet, but I will. Thanks. Not been playing games at all. I did buy the new Jonathan Wilson World Cup book in hardcover though, and look forward to reading that, if I can drag myself away from here. I was doing well not posting for a week or two then came back.

Going back to Barca - I don't take any pride in saying the team is overrated and Flick is overrated. It isn't an anti-Barca thing. I don't enjoy it like I enjoy United's woefulness.

I'd like to sit here and say all the players are brilliant and Flick is a genius, but that would be a massive lie in my estimation. I will admit I have been rather vocal about it in the last few hours though. If anything that shows I want Barca to do well as a neutral - it's frustrating that this team is not the Barca of old and that the coach won't change.

 

[ZenI]

We won, we would have won even if they didn't get that ridiculous red card. We play much better in CL than LL and we play much better in the second half. Sure, still may things to worry about... Yamal is more flashy but than substance this season, Olmo is nowhere to be found, we miss Inigo and how he was leader, Casado is meh compared to last season, Kounde forgot how to play etc etc etc. ut even though I feel we might not win LL and only get to quarter in CL I still think we'll do better than last 3 games before tonight.

 

[Maradona37]

We won, we would have won even if they didn't get that ridiculous red card. We play much better in CL than LL and we play much better in the second half. Sure, still may things to worry about... Yamal is more flashy but than substance this season, Olmo is nowhere to be found, we miss Inigo and how he was leader, Casado is meh compared to last season, Kounde forgot how to play etc etc etc. ut even though I feel we might not win LL and only get to quarter in CL I still think we'll do better than last 3 games before tonight.

Yeah, finishing (maybe a fairly distant) second in La Liga (third if Atletico can get a great run going) and getting to the QF of the CL (dependent on draw) is what I would see as a safe bet for the season.

If I was staking my life on it right now I would say 2nd in La Liga and QF of the CL, semis at a push.

But that's not good enough for Barca.

 

[MonteCuler]

Flick is a transitional solution. You're right in that a great deal of our players are overrated. And what are we supposed to do? Get a Barça philosophy coach and ask him to build a complete possesion based superteam with those players?

It's an option, but one that would fail. And we would have to wait maybe a decade or more to finally become the absolute top again, to get the world class players and become "true Barça" again

Flick uses different philosophy. Ruthless, efficient football with many variables, a lot of things that are not calculable, pure chaos football that you have no idea what it will bring. But it can work with players of much lower quality. He makes everything incredibly easy for the attackers. High risk high reward

Laporta opted to take the risk. He wanted to hire Flick even earlier. And it has brought him success. If you compare 23/24 and 24/25 seasons, it clearly has. Not only have we won 3 trophies and gone deep in CL but our reputation has completely transformed. Barça was basically a joke since 2018/19 up until Flick arrived. Now it's again one of the very top sides

With our financial situation we should be absolutely shit and unserious. We have many positions we would have to reinforce but there is no money to do it. And Deco and Laporta pretend there is no need to do it because they have Flick and rely on him to do some magic with Lewandowski or Ferran or Martin or fuck knows who. When we have money to sign proper footballers we can dream of being prime Barça again. Until then we stick to Flickball and trust Flick

 

[Kul_z]

In normal circumstances, if we had money we would cover the cracks(rb,lb,elite cb, and probably an wc attacker) and we would be pretty much heavy favourites to win everything. Right now we are at the point that you just dont know what edition of some of our players we would get in the match.
When you see what chances we let opponents to have, its a miracle we didnt get spanked properly yet.
We are playing bundesliga football on global scale and we are the most entertaining and bets open team right now. We aint winning shit until flick doesnt find some miracle formula to shut down chance after chance opponents get in minutes where our players look lost( it last for 5-10min) until they get their shit together.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

This team needs leadership. Who is the leader of this team right now? Martinez helped the defense so much.

 

[Kul_z]

This team needs leadership. Who is the leader of this team right now? Martinez helped the defense so much.

Puyol like figure to slap the shit out of lamine would be ideal. There is no player in the world right now who can come in this team and become a leader, well there is one but he aint coming back.

 

[jaype]

never a second yellow, might not even be a foul. But it's good to see that refs can fuck up in our favor once in a blue moon.