Argentina primera division
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AURELIUS
Member
Enano has been getting abuse from opposition fans calling hum a murderer. I think it quite possible he will leave for Europe along with Affranchino who Udinese are interested in.
With the monies River may well look at bringing back d'Alessandro possibly Aimar in the long term or get a young or older '5' to shore up the midfield defensively with Almeyda retiring this winter .Options inc. Guinazu or perhaps the very promising Arsenal kid Claudio Mosca (a Mascherano clone).
Hopefully Lanzini and Lamela stay for some seasons to come as they are diamonds. And with Juan Manuel Iturbe declaring for Argentina over Paraguay what a set of midfield talent there is. Who said the '10' was dead ?
V
Valon
Guest
I think Buenanotte would get eaten alive in Europe.
La Furia
Legion of Doooom
I hate to say it but El Enano might be best off moving to Brazil. He's not ready for Europe but Argentina is going to ruin him the way opposition fans treat him. I wish he could stay at River but I think the only way he's going to clear his head is by getting out of the country.
I would love Aimar to return...if only....
I'm still concerned about River's strikers...Pavone is immobile and Funes Mori is as frustrating as ever. I miss Falcao.
I would love Aimar to return...if only....
I'm still concerned about River's strikers...Pavone is immobile and Funes Mori is as frustrating as ever. I miss Falcao.
AURELIUS
Member
The abuse Enano has been getting is a disgrace. No compassion or sympathy. The kid has a life sentence as it is knowing his three best friends died.
The investigation shows he was not under the influence abd that had they been wearing seat belts they might have survived. Not to mention the state of roads in Argentina is not great.
It is quite possible he could move to Brazil but look at Defederico. The sucessful Argentines have been playmakers ie d'Alessandro and Montillo somethign which has died out in the physical style European Brazil league.
It might be possible to arrange a swap deal and get say Defederico back in exchange. But I think Enano could make it. Pablo Piatti has no problems at Almeria and he is hardly any bigger. Maxi Moralez was a poor career move . He could not settle at all in Russia.
Striking wise Rogelio is only a kid still. His linkup play needs work (he wasn't fully raised in the River cantara and knows how to pass) but when the side slumps it's unsurprising he does.
Pavone agree. Past it for me. I think a deal for someone like Jara at Benfica might be worth a punt. He's not getting much playing time and being wasted but then again he isn't a '9'.
There are a couple of excellent young strikers below Rogelio but still too young ie Giovanni Simeone son of Diego for one.
The investigation shows he was not under the influence abd that had they been wearing seat belts they might have survived. Not to mention the state of roads in Argentina is not great.
It is quite possible he could move to Brazil but look at Defederico. The sucessful Argentines have been playmakers ie d'Alessandro and Montillo somethign which has died out in the physical style European Brazil league.
It might be possible to arrange a swap deal and get say Defederico back in exchange. But I think Enano could make it. Pablo Piatti has no problems at Almeria and he is hardly any bigger. Maxi Moralez was a poor career move . He could not settle at all in Russia.
Striking wise Rogelio is only a kid still. His linkup play needs work (he wasn't fully raised in the River cantara and knows how to pass) but when the side slumps it's unsurprising he does.
Pavone agree. Past it for me. I think a deal for someone like Jara at Benfica might be worth a punt. He's not getting much playing time and being wasted but then again he isn't a '9'.
There are a couple of excellent young strikers below Rogelio but still too young ie Giovanni Simeone son of Diego for one.
Lemmi
The Reckoner
Argentina Comment: Angel Cappa's River Plate Departure Points To More Monumental Misery
As Cappa becomes the latest coach to try and fail at the Nuñez club, Daniel Edwards examines why the Argentine giants are scrapping in the lower reaches of the Primera Division...
By Daniel Edwards
Nov 9, 2010 5:30:00 PM
Back in May it seemed to be the dream partnership. Daniel Passarella the new, dynamic president of River Plate, a man who understood the passions and expectations of the fans and who would end the rotten corruption which had left the club depleted under Jose Maria Aguilar. Angel Cappa the wise, much-travelled coach who would bring his electrifying 'Tiki-Tiki' philosophy to the Monumental and turn around a club set to start the new season in serious risk of relegation.
Six months however may as well be 100 years in Argentine football. Yesterday River's golden ticket lay torn into pieces as 'Angelito' was sacked, an impressive start to the season tarnished by a run of seven games without a win, mid-table mediocrity made worse by their continued presence in the promocion places.
A desperate, pitiful loss against recently promoted All Boys - a club which just two years ago were playing the likes of San Telmo and Deportivo Moron in the third-tier Primera B - was the final nail in the coffin, and the dreams of River fans lay in tatters as Cappa drove away, laptop primed and ready to blog his thoughts on the departure.
Passarella sacks his second coach in less than a year at River
Looking at events at River in recent years however, we must ask if it's really a surprise that the Cappa era turned out, just like all of the others in recent times, to be yet another false dawn for the Millo. This is a club which since the start of the 2007 Apertura has had five, soon to be six tacticians, none of which has managed to coach an entire calendar year.
A team which, since a trophy-filled run at the start of the millennium, has won just one championship in the last seven years - promptly followed by a last place finish in the following campaign. The three year average points table for relegation does not lie: outside the Primera newboys, only lowly Gimnasia de la Plata have a worse record in recent years than arguably the biggest club in the nation. The second-biggest overall fanbase; the most members and active fans; a youth system second to none in Argentina; the largest, most modern stadium with the highest attendances and gate receipts: why on earth are River continuing to fail?
Political and boardroom mismanagement has taken its toll over the years, but an easier explanation can be found on the pitch every Sunday. In a pattern repeated across South America, the great players who used to grace the Monumental have been replaced by a rump mix of players at different stages of their careers. Teenagers just starting out, veterans back for a last hurrah and more than anything players who never were good enough to make the grade: that is the modus operandi for constructing a River starting line-up.
Casting an eye on the attack proves the point perfectly: since goal machine Falcao departed in 2009, River's forward line has consisted of raw youth players such as Rogelio Funes Mori and Daniel Villalba; failed European players such as Mariano Pavone and mediocre 'never will-bes' like Leandro Caruso and Gustavo Canales. Across the pitch it's the same story; with a few notable exceptions the current XI are not experienced enough; or simply not fit to wear the famous shirt.
This paucity of playing talent however has done nothing to quell the illusions of fans, who are perhaps the most demanding, most expecting of all the big clubs. A River socio will not keep going to the stadium every week regardless of how the team performs, as will their counterparts from Boca Juniors and Racing Club. If their heroes are behind, playing poorly or not living up to expectations ominous rows of empty seat and terrace start to open up at the Monumental, and the acoustics of the imposing amphitheatre starkly exposes the silence of angered followers.
This is a support which demands success and is quick to turn on the club when it doesn't occur; a fact that directors, players and coaches alike are acutely aware of. There is no settling in period for a new coach, no gently adaptation to the pressure cooker atmosphere; it is instant success, or out the revolving door.
Carrizo is one of the few signings to live up to expectations
Of course it would be ingenuous to remove all of the blame from Cappa, who knew what was expected of him the moment he shook Passarella's hand back in May. Apart from the excellent Juan Pablo Carrizo the multiple signings he made over the winter have largely been underwhelming for River, with defenders such as Carlos Arano and Jonathan Maidana especially disappointing. An urbane, witty and extremely intelligent man, Cappa time and again was reduced to a raving lunatic on the sidelines as he adopted a siege mentality, and seeing the disintegration of his composure as far back as against Banfield some fixtures ago, you felt the pressure of the Millo was too much for him.
This is a man better known for his contributions as Cesar Menotti's right hand man and the memories of one electrifying season at Huracan than for a record of consistent success and trophy harvesting; indeed, his only cup in a long coaching career was a Charity Cup with South Africans Mamelodi Sundowns. Early indications from the Monumental seem to suggest that the directors recognise they were seduced by the idea of Cappa, the legend over the substance; which is why attention now turns to Americo Gallego and Marcelo Bielsa, two coaches with no little silver adorning their resumes.
The River players meanwhile must now regroup ahead of the Superclasico, which is less than a week away, and the plan is to bring in a new coach - the favourite being 'El Tolo' Gallegos- before the game. There will undoubtedly be the same handshakes, the same smiling photo-shoots and the same promises of future success as those which accompanied 'Angelito' into the post: time will tell if the deep structural and personnel deficiencies at the club can be addressed, to avoid the successor facing the same bitter end in the near future.
As Cappa becomes the latest coach to try and fail at the Nuñez club, Daniel Edwards examines why the Argentine giants are scrapping in the lower reaches of the Primera Division...
By Daniel Edwards
Nov 9, 2010 5:30:00 PM
Back in May it seemed to be the dream partnership. Daniel Passarella the new, dynamic president of River Plate, a man who understood the passions and expectations of the fans and who would end the rotten corruption which had left the club depleted under Jose Maria Aguilar. Angel Cappa the wise, much-travelled coach who would bring his electrifying 'Tiki-Tiki' philosophy to the Monumental and turn around a club set to start the new season in serious risk of relegation.
Six months however may as well be 100 years in Argentine football. Yesterday River's golden ticket lay torn into pieces as 'Angelito' was sacked, an impressive start to the season tarnished by a run of seven games without a win, mid-table mediocrity made worse by their continued presence in the promocion places.
A desperate, pitiful loss against recently promoted All Boys - a club which just two years ago were playing the likes of San Telmo and Deportivo Moron in the third-tier Primera B - was the final nail in the coffin, and the dreams of River fans lay in tatters as Cappa drove away, laptop primed and ready to blog his thoughts on the departure.
Passarella sacks his second coach in less than a year at River
Looking at events at River in recent years however, we must ask if it's really a surprise that the Cappa era turned out, just like all of the others in recent times, to be yet another false dawn for the Millo. This is a club which since the start of the 2007 Apertura has had five, soon to be six tacticians, none of which has managed to coach an entire calendar year.
A team which, since a trophy-filled run at the start of the millennium, has won just one championship in the last seven years - promptly followed by a last place finish in the following campaign. The three year average points table for relegation does not lie: outside the Primera newboys, only lowly Gimnasia de la Plata have a worse record in recent years than arguably the biggest club in the nation. The second-biggest overall fanbase; the most members and active fans; a youth system second to none in Argentina; the largest, most modern stadium with the highest attendances and gate receipts: why on earth are River continuing to fail?
Political and boardroom mismanagement has taken its toll over the years, but an easier explanation can be found on the pitch every Sunday. In a pattern repeated across South America, the great players who used to grace the Monumental have been replaced by a rump mix of players at different stages of their careers. Teenagers just starting out, veterans back for a last hurrah and more than anything players who never were good enough to make the grade: that is the modus operandi for constructing a River starting line-up.
Casting an eye on the attack proves the point perfectly: since goal machine Falcao departed in 2009, River's forward line has consisted of raw youth players such as Rogelio Funes Mori and Daniel Villalba; failed European players such as Mariano Pavone and mediocre 'never will-bes' like Leandro Caruso and Gustavo Canales. Across the pitch it's the same story; with a few notable exceptions the current XI are not experienced enough; or simply not fit to wear the famous shirt.
This paucity of playing talent however has done nothing to quell the illusions of fans, who are perhaps the most demanding, most expecting of all the big clubs. A River socio will not keep going to the stadium every week regardless of how the team performs, as will their counterparts from Boca Juniors and Racing Club. If their heroes are behind, playing poorly or not living up to expectations ominous rows of empty seat and terrace start to open up at the Monumental, and the acoustics of the imposing amphitheatre starkly exposes the silence of angered followers.
This is a support which demands success and is quick to turn on the club when it doesn't occur; a fact that directors, players and coaches alike are acutely aware of. There is no settling in period for a new coach, no gently adaptation to the pressure cooker atmosphere; it is instant success, or out the revolving door.
Carrizo is one of the few signings to live up to expectations
Of course it would be ingenuous to remove all of the blame from Cappa, who knew what was expected of him the moment he shook Passarella's hand back in May. Apart from the excellent Juan Pablo Carrizo the multiple signings he made over the winter have largely been underwhelming for River, with defenders such as Carlos Arano and Jonathan Maidana especially disappointing. An urbane, witty and extremely intelligent man, Cappa time and again was reduced to a raving lunatic on the sidelines as he adopted a siege mentality, and seeing the disintegration of his composure as far back as against Banfield some fixtures ago, you felt the pressure of the Millo was too much for him.
This is a man better known for his contributions as Cesar Menotti's right hand man and the memories of one electrifying season at Huracan than for a record of consistent success and trophy harvesting; indeed, his only cup in a long coaching career was a Charity Cup with South Africans Mamelodi Sundowns. Early indications from the Monumental seem to suggest that the directors recognise they were seduced by the idea of Cappa, the legend over the substance; which is why attention now turns to Americo Gallego and Marcelo Bielsa, two coaches with no little silver adorning their resumes.
The River players meanwhile must now regroup ahead of the Superclasico, which is less than a week away, and the plan is to bring in a new coach - the favourite being 'El Tolo' Gallegos- before the game. There will undoubtedly be the same handshakes, the same smiling photo-shoots and the same promises of future success as those which accompanied 'Angelito' into the post: time will tell if the deep structural and personnel deficiencies at the club can be addressed, to avoid the successor facing the same bitter end in the near future.
Lemmi
The Reckoner
this is my brother's preview of it: (it is his birthday today as well)
http://www.goal.com/en/news/585/arg...o-2010-the-history-of-a-true-argentine-grudge
or...
Superclasico 2010: The History Of A True Argentine Grudge Match
The two biggest clubs in Argentina gear up to renew their rivalry on Tuesday evening; Daniel Edwards takes a trip back in time to look at the history of River Plate and Boca Juniors and their timeless enmity...
By Daniel Edwards
Nov 15, 2010 10:00:00 AM
As with so many of the most bitter derby clashes across the world, the history of River Plate and Boca Juniors is inextricably linked with social class and status conflicts. Both teams in fact started their lives as neighbours in Buenos Aires' tough La Boca neighbourhood, a stone's throw from the harbour that exported the meat and agricultural produce which made Argentina one of the world's economic powerhouses in the nineteenth century. Immigrants from Spain and Italy centred in the barrio and brought their love of football across the Atlantic, as the capital became a cosmopolitan world city.
In 1925 however River moved away from La Boca to the leafy suburb of Nunez to the north, and as a result became associated strongly with the middle and upper classes; the name Millonarios (millionaires) closer representing the typical River fan than any financial power held by the club. Boca on the other hand stayed in the old neighbourhood and became the team of the worker, the immigrant and the recent arrivals. This image has stayed with us to the present day; witness the racist chanting against Boca and their perceived popularity amongst the new wave of Bolivian and Paraguayan migrants to see how old ideas die hard in the folklore of Argentine football.
The rivals played their first game on the August 24, 1913, with River securing a 2-1 away win in Racing Club's Avellaneda stadium. Candido Garcia and Antonio Ameal Pereyra netted for the Millo, while Marcos Mayer scored Boca's first ever goal against their then-neighbours.
Violence and Tragedy:
As the two best-supported teams in Argentina- between 60 and 70% of all Argentines are said to support one of the sides- and considering the violent history of the country's football, it is no surprise that many of the games have been affected by fights between the two team's loyal support. Tuesday's match will feature an almost unprecedented level of security and policing, with up to 1,500 armed police likely to be on patrol in and around the stadium and streets all across the Nunez barrio closed off to vehicles and public.
The fixture is also no stranger to tragedy. On the June 23, 1968, 71 Boca fans perished and 150 were injured in the Monumental, in the worst accident ever to hit an Argentine stadium. A sudden rush to leave the stadium (for reasons that have never been fully explained) led to the supporters being crushed against the closed puerta 12 (gate 12) of the away enclosure, and a subsequent inquiry was inconclusive as it never found a single person or entity responsible for one of the worst non-natural disasters in Argentine history.
The Superclasico in Numbers
In total Boca and River have played 333 games, with 126 wins for Boca beating their rival's 106. Boca also hold the advantage in the professional era, winning 68 of the 186 official clashes to River's 61.
It is the Millo however that are on top when it comes to goalscorers. The legendary Angel Labruna holds the record with 16 goals scored against the Xeneixe, as the striker featured in the club's mythical Maquina side of the 1930's 40's. Paulo Valentim is Boca's highest player on the list with 10, while Martin Palermo has scored more than any other current player on seven strikes.
Curiosities
-The Superclasico has finished goalless just 14 times in official AFA tournaments
-The fastest goal in the match belongs to former Boca star and current Catania man Pablo Ledesma, who hit the net after just 50 seconds in a 1-1 draw in 2007
-Carlos Garcia Cambon without a doubt can claim the most impressive debut; in his first game for Boca he netted four against River in a 5-2 win in 1974.
-Diego Maradona loved playing against River; the number 10 hit five goals in seven clasicos and made an emotional farewell to the fans against the 'Millonarios' in 1997.
-Norberto 'Beto' Alonso was another who loved taking on the Auld Enemy. He played an impressive 25 times for River against Boca, scoring six goals; and also said goodbye to his beloved River in a derby match.
Additional reporting by Goal.com Latin America
Listen to Daniel, Dan and Sam on the Hand of Pod, a new Argentine football podcast that starts on Monday with a Superclasico special...
http://handofpod.wordpress.com/
http://www.goal.com/en/news/585/arg...o-2010-the-history-of-a-true-argentine-grudge
or...
Superclasico 2010: The History Of A True Argentine Grudge Match
The two biggest clubs in Argentina gear up to renew their rivalry on Tuesday evening; Daniel Edwards takes a trip back in time to look at the history of River Plate and Boca Juniors and their timeless enmity...
By Daniel Edwards
Nov 15, 2010 10:00:00 AM
As with so many of the most bitter derby clashes across the world, the history of River Plate and Boca Juniors is inextricably linked with social class and status conflicts. Both teams in fact started their lives as neighbours in Buenos Aires' tough La Boca neighbourhood, a stone's throw from the harbour that exported the meat and agricultural produce which made Argentina one of the world's economic powerhouses in the nineteenth century. Immigrants from Spain and Italy centred in the barrio and brought their love of football across the Atlantic, as the capital became a cosmopolitan world city.
In 1925 however River moved away from La Boca to the leafy suburb of Nunez to the north, and as a result became associated strongly with the middle and upper classes; the name Millonarios (millionaires) closer representing the typical River fan than any financial power held by the club. Boca on the other hand stayed in the old neighbourhood and became the team of the worker, the immigrant and the recent arrivals. This image has stayed with us to the present day; witness the racist chanting against Boca and their perceived popularity amongst the new wave of Bolivian and Paraguayan migrants to see how old ideas die hard in the folklore of Argentine football.
The rivals played their first game on the August 24, 1913, with River securing a 2-1 away win in Racing Club's Avellaneda stadium. Candido Garcia and Antonio Ameal Pereyra netted for the Millo, while Marcos Mayer scored Boca's first ever goal against their then-neighbours.
Violence and Tragedy:
As the two best-supported teams in Argentina- between 60 and 70% of all Argentines are said to support one of the sides- and considering the violent history of the country's football, it is no surprise that many of the games have been affected by fights between the two team's loyal support. Tuesday's match will feature an almost unprecedented level of security and policing, with up to 1,500 armed police likely to be on patrol in and around the stadium and streets all across the Nunez barrio closed off to vehicles and public.
The fixture is also no stranger to tragedy. On the June 23, 1968, 71 Boca fans perished and 150 were injured in the Monumental, in the worst accident ever to hit an Argentine stadium. A sudden rush to leave the stadium (for reasons that have never been fully explained) led to the supporters being crushed against the closed puerta 12 (gate 12) of the away enclosure, and a subsequent inquiry was inconclusive as it never found a single person or entity responsible for one of the worst non-natural disasters in Argentine history.
The Superclasico in Numbers
In total Boca and River have played 333 games, with 126 wins for Boca beating their rival's 106. Boca also hold the advantage in the professional era, winning 68 of the 186 official clashes to River's 61.
It is the Millo however that are on top when it comes to goalscorers. The legendary Angel Labruna holds the record with 16 goals scored against the Xeneixe, as the striker featured in the club's mythical Maquina side of the 1930's 40's. Paulo Valentim is Boca's highest player on the list with 10, while Martin Palermo has scored more than any other current player on seven strikes.
Curiosities
-The Superclasico has finished goalless just 14 times in official AFA tournaments
-The fastest goal in the match belongs to former Boca star and current Catania man Pablo Ledesma, who hit the net after just 50 seconds in a 1-1 draw in 2007
-Carlos Garcia Cambon without a doubt can claim the most impressive debut; in his first game for Boca he netted four against River in a 5-2 win in 1974.
-Diego Maradona loved playing against River; the number 10 hit five goals in seven clasicos and made an emotional farewell to the fans against the 'Millonarios' in 1997.
-Norberto 'Beto' Alonso was another who loved taking on the Auld Enemy. He played an impressive 25 times for River against Boca, scoring six goals; and also said goodbye to his beloved River in a derby match.
Additional reporting by Goal.com Latin America
Listen to Daniel, Dan and Sam on the Hand of Pod, a new Argentine football podcast that starts on Monday with a Superclasico special...
http://handofpod.wordpress.com/
Metaphysical
Bomb Dropper
Peerd
Notorious Demagogue
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