Thiago Alcantara
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MessiCam
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Rakitic is not Barça quality on the ball. He struggles under pressure... His possession and passing stats will look great though because;
1. Barça still see a lot of the ball
2. His out when pressed is to pass back
Rakitic is not good on the turn, and is even worse when he has to turn into or away from pressure.
That said, stick him in a double pivot and watch him shine in the defensive phases and with long balls during transitions.
clemente
New member
Rakitic, an elite passer
How much I hate useless posts like this where you have nothing to say to deflect my points so you respond with something like "lol". Either fuck off or give some valuable input.
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
He really is far away from being an elite passer though. Gets completely stifled in the pressure/congestion of an intense competition like the CL. He can make some good passes in La Liga games here and there but he's more mediocre/poor by the standards Barca should have of their midfielders, not elite. Pass completion % is an extremely weak stat, progressive passes is a better metric for midfield creativity and passing skill. Rakitic isn't even close to the upper end on those statistics though, whereas Modric/Kroos/Isco are all in the top 10.
Thiago has made some really nice passes today from very deep positions and has had a great game overall, like he always does for Spain. He would fit in perfectly at Barca with Busi behind him. Too bad we have to suffer the idiocy of Pep Segura.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
You constantly act like a certain section of the fan base is saying we have no use for a keita or Davids in the squad,which is not the case but to start a midfield of van bommel, edmilson, motta is just
I don't think I have ever said that Rijkaard played these 3 together or that I would play these 3 together.
So, one more time:
1. I don't like midfield consisted only of 3 light technical players, Imo, that can't work in 2019. It worked only once, from 2009-2011, when:
a) we had 3 best midfielders ever in Xavi-Iniesta-Busi, which we will have never again
b) teams played naive against TikiTaka back then, which won't happen ever again
c) that team had prime Messi, which will happen never again
So, 3 Iniestas is a no go for me past 2011.
About stronger players or thugs, my point is that if we'll play 433, we need 2 Iniestas and 1 thug/stronger guy.
Currently we have Rakitic and he needs to play.
But, as you see, people want Raki out. If you bring Arthur instead of Raki, you get better passing and less defending, muscles and similar things.
And that is a no go on a CL level in 2019.
Not all posters here want that, but a lot of guys would probably play Cou-Arthur-Busi or Cou-Thiago-Busi and similar.
Imo, from a defensive, muscle and thugish point of view, that is not good enough for a CL level.
It is good enough at home La liga matches though.
One more time, I would never play 433 with Paulinho-Rakitic as CMs, there is zero creativity here.
So, I would play only: 2 light guys and 1 thug, or 1 light guy (Iniesta type), 1 thug (Raki/Paulinho/Van Bommel type) and one "middle" type.
So, after Busi, I would like to see a slightly more aggressive CDM, and not someone like Sergi Samper.
Imagine a trio of Samper-Arthur-Coutinho.
That is equally as horrible as Paulinho-Paulinho and Paulinho in midfield.
So, That is my point.
I don't want 3 Paulinhos.
I am asking for balance like 2 light guys and 1 tougher guy.
And that is HOW Barca has always played.
Under Van Gaal, we had Cocu, in 2000s we had Cocu and Rochemback. Then Cocu and Motta. Then Edmilson, Motta and Van Bommel paired with technical guys.
So, you see, we always had a mix of technique and some muscles.
But Pep's followers (that is my impression) have gone into extreme technical route and they are neglecting muscled players.
Feel free to make a poll and ask how many fans here would play Cou-Alena/Arthur/Thiago-Busi midfield.
A lot.
That is my point and a midfield like that is horribly wrong in 2019.
It would have been good in 2011 and with young Messi infront of them.
Today? Not possible.
Again, Madrid has a mix of:
1. Modric, a light guy
2. Kroos, a middle ground, not a light guy, not a thug either
3. Casemiro, a thug
So, Real has 2+1 (light+thug) or 1+1+1 (light-middle-thug).
Then, as I have explained, if we field Cou-Thiago-Busi, what is that?
3 light players or at best 1 middle and 2 light players.
So, do you see my point and why am I whining here?
You talk about Milan.
A lot of guys will get offended and they will jump on this.
But do you know that during Cruijff's golden era, Barca played 2 CL finals in those 7 years?
Milan played 5 finals in the same era.
Their Dutch spine was Cdm Rijkaard, Cam Gullit and Cf Van Basten.
Do you remember their height? 190, 190 and 188.
Barca back then had mostly only technique. Milan had a mix of technique and muscles, as 99% of winning teams ever.
I would even dare to say that Barca from 2009-2011 is the ONLY purely technical team EVER which won a CL.
But that is an anomaly, not a rule.
Anomaly because we have Xavi-Iniesta-Busi-Messi.
We will never had those guys again.
So, I would dare to say, that till today, winning teams were always a mixture of technique and muscles.
While Barca 2009-2011 was only team who won it ONLY with technique, without any muscles.
And now lots of guys are sticking to 2009-2011 like crazy, even though:
1. the opponents figured TikiTaka out
2. we will never have Xavi-Iniest-Busi-Messi again
Some people are mentioning current RM as an example of a technical team.
Yet:
1. RM has at elast one thug in midfield (Casemiro) and one "middle" guy in Kroos who is way stronger and thugish than Iniesta and Busi.
2. Real has multidimensional attack, since they can score after a possession game, after counters, after crosses and after set pieces.
So, comparing RM with technical+physical midfield and with multidimensional attack with Cou-Thiago-Busi and 3 short attackers is beyond crazy in my eyes.
Our version of football and theirs is totally different for a CL's level.
One more time: I am not asking for a Motta-Van Bommel-Edmilson midfield, just for a balance (technique&physique)
There is also nothing which indicates that a midfield of 3 light technical players could win a CL.
The only example ever is Barca from 2009-2011, bit again, I explained already.
1. opponents didn't know to defend back then
2. Messi
3. Xavi-Iniesta-Busi
We got only a physical midfield.
We still had short attackers who can play only through the ground, which is easy to neutralize in a CL.
When we'll have 1-1-1 midfield (light-middle-thug) or 2-0-1, and one CF who can score BOTH with head and feet, I will be happy then.
But that won't happen too soon, because Pep's legacy is too strong among fans and a board who will try to replicate it for years to come.
Ok, we are closer now.
3 thugs is not the way to go.
2 thugs are also not the way to go, probably
BUT what many don't get: Cou-Arthur/Thiago-Busi is also not the way to go, but you'll realize it soon, so I'll wait for a few months.
Yeah, I think that you are missing the point.
All those technical teams had 1-2 guys for running, stamina, defending and dirty stuff.
Read at this topic, people want to get rid of Rakitic.
That is suicidal.
If you want to get rid of Raki, then bring a better version of Raki.
You can't bring Arthur in 2019 instead of Raki.
This is not 2009-2011, the only time ever when a team with 3 light midfielders won a CL.
Have I ever said that those 3 started?
Oh, voila...
Exactly.
There are players who are both strong and technical.
I am not calling for Paulinho-Rakitic duo in a 433.
But if I could clone players, Edmilson-Motta/Van Bommel-current Cou wouldn't be the of the world on a CL level. With let's say Griezz-Etoo-Messi in attack.
That is a totally different universe both in terms of muscles&technique in midfield and an attack who can score from possession, counters and headers.
My opinion is that those players can't work in 2019.
First, because you'll never have 3 as good midfielders in the same time.
If you have 800 Millions to spend, try to make a trio today which can come even close to those 3.
What is the best trio currently at all? Busi-Verratti-Coutinho, something like that? Or Isco, Kroos, De Bruyne, Modric?
Try to put any 3 midfielders in the world and NONE combination will come even close to Xavi-Iniesta-Busi.
This is why it won't work today.
Also, we had young Messi then.
As I said above: try to name 1 team in a history besides Barca from 2009, 2011 who won with zero thugs in midfield?
Till this aprt I thought that you were serious, after this part, I would rather delete my reply.
RM has at least one thug in Casemiro, who can run fast, and bully players (and pass).
We have only 1 thug, Raki, who is older and slower and people want to get rid even of him.
Not to mention that 183 cm tall Kroos if far from a light schoolboy.
He can pass, we all know that.
He is physically stronger than our guys, plus his personality is not a schoolboy.
So, again, your desired midfield is 3-0-0 light/middle/thug.
Real's midfield is closer to 1-1-1.
I mean, if you guys don't see BOTH aggression, physical strength and technique in Kroos and Casemiro, unlike in Busi/Iniesta for example, then it is hard to discuss further.
Why would we need 11 thugs?
Try to look for a word balance in dictionary.
Our team is a team of nicest players in the world.
We didn't score a goal on last 6 away matches when we were knocked out in a CL, Chelsea 0:1, Bayern 0:4, AM 0:1, AM 0:2, Juve 0:3, Roma 0:3.
Imo, it has a lot of to do with our lack of a true captain, a lack of mental strength, and "too nice schoolboy personality" of majority of our players.
I would like to see 1 crazy Van Bommel plus 1-2 lions/leaders like Lucho/Puyol.
Just look at body language and face expressions of Messi, Iniesta and Busi when we are 0:3 against Juve/Roma.
No yelling, no fighting, nothing.
Just a bunch of nice guys.
So, I am not asking for 11 idiots.
But 1-2 guys with "balls".
Love and hugs, mate. Don't lose nerves on football forum because of posts of a fan from the same club, lol.
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Kingkongkong
New member
BBZ
If you had the control of Barcas transfers as the market is now, wich players would you like us to get?
Who would be the CF who can score with both feet and head
Who would be the thug
And who would be the “middle-guy”
Just asking out of pure curiosity, not going to get involved in this discussion.
If you had the control of Barcas transfers as the market is now, wich players would you like us to get?
Who would be the CF who can score with both feet and head
Who would be the thug
And who would be the “middle-guy”
Just asking out of pure curiosity, not going to get involved in this discussion.
BBZ is kinda walking back is point after stating how many times I don't know that big strong player are the best thing ever, now he is trying to include "technically players".
The likes of kroos is a technical player before anything else thats his make up, the fact that he is 6" as nothing to do with it, before him Madrid tried the "thug" & nothing worked..
More often times than not the "thug" in any teams midfield is the DM we have changed this because we have busquets in that position, I'm sure when we retires we will have a more traditional DM, but busquets is the best DM in the game for years now & his just starting to old down.
But you have always talked about big physical players first even constantly listing them over the years, so don't walk back your point now to a more reasonable one which most fans here already agreed on that we need a player like that in the squad at least.
You were never of that opinion, you were always on the extreme end, you have now come to a more reasonable point of view so we have no disagreement on this subject anymore, thank you for finally coming around.
The likes of kroos is a technical player before anything else thats his make up, the fact that he is 6" as nothing to do with it, before him Madrid tried the "thug" & nothing worked..
More often times than not the "thug" in any teams midfield is the DM we have changed this because we have busquets in that position, I'm sure when we retires we will have a more traditional DM, but busquets is the best DM in the game for years now & his just starting to old down.
But you have always talked about big physical players first even constantly listing them over the years, so don't walk back your point now to a more reasonable one which most fans here already agreed on that we need a player like that in the squad at least.
You were never of that opinion, you were always on the extreme end, you have now come to a more reasonable point of view so we have no disagreement on this subject anymore, thank you for finally coming around.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I am quite sure that I have never said that I would like ALL strong players or ALL strong midfielders.
I would play (as a coach) in 433 somewhere in between 1-1-1 (light/middle/thug) at home in a CL and 1-1-1 or 1-0-2 (2 thugs) in away matches or when you need to defend let's say 2:0 win.
Someone will reply: we defended against Roma and see what happened. We played with 3 turtles, Roberto turned into a MR 3 days before Roma matches and Semedo was suddenly a starter.
We can do better than that.
So, once for all, I don't want 3 strong guys in midfield.
I personally like Coutinho. But besides him, you need at least 1 Rakitic.
You can't pair Coutinho with Alena/Arthur and similar.
About Busi, you are right.
Thugs are usually Cdms or Cdm-Cms.
Since we have Busi as a Cdm (who is light), we can only play with a thug as a CM1 or a CM2. And since thugs are usually slightly less technical and more physical, then a thug as a Cm can be a problem in a creative phase.
So, while we have Busi:
1. if you play with one stronger Cm, like Raki=creation can suffer
2. if you play with 2 light Cms beside Busi, unless their name is prime Xavi-Iniesta=we are in deep shit balance, defending and muscles wise
I have said a few days ago that Busi is a great gift but also a tactical burden to this team, due to him being able to excel only in 433 and due to this thing mentioned above (with him in a team, you need a thug somewhere else which can create creative problems), but then some guys got offended.
So, ok, we agree, after Busi, it would be nice to get a stronger Cdm, then we could play with 2 lighter Cms, as majority of you wish.
But, in my worst dreams, imagine that we get a superlight Samper as a Cdm, that would be a total chaos of midfield, paired with 2 light Cms.
And again, I think you didn't get my posts.
I don't want 3 thugs.
I want a balance.
3 light midfielders is NOT a balance.
We can't do anything until we will turn the page.
As long as we have Busi, we can play only 433, and then you need a thugish Cm.
And people don't want that.
I would rather have a thugish Cdm and light and middle CM as CMs.
But again, as long as we have Busi, we can either play with superlight midfield which won't cope well in a CL or to have someone like Raki as a CM to do some dirty work, which people don't like also.
Middle guy could be even Thiago.
But again, Thiago-Cou (middle guy and a light guy) could work only with some Edmilson/Marquez behind them
If you play light & middle guy with Busi behind them, well we'll just see lots of Romas in the next season's away CL and La liga matches.
So:
1. I would either play without Busi, and then you can play Thiago-Cou
2. or keep Busi, but then you need to keep Raki (or buy someone similar) to do some dirty work and offer at least some muscles in midfield
But our hands are tied on a lot of levels.
1. Busi as explained above
2. Messi wants to play centrally, every formation is screwed (I am not saying: selling Messi. I ma just saying: we will have a tactical mess in all options)
3. Suarez who needs to play in the box to drag away some opponents but then clashes with Messi's central position
Life would be easier if this was Fifa, and if we would be able to sell everyone and buy 11 players based on your formation and your wishes.
Anyway, since Busi is staying, two least bad options are Raki and Thiago, with Raki being the better option since he is the only "muscles" in our midfield.
To some extent, this is why I called for Rabiot in the other topic.
He can be a sub option for Busi, and if you play Rabiot as a Cdm, you are getting muscles at a Cdm position, and then you can play freely Arthur-Cou or Thiago-Cou, for example.
Or, as the 2nd option, Busi as a light Cdm, Rabiot as "legs, muscles and a thug" as a Cm1 and Cou as a light Cm2.
But majority of guys aren't looking at it that way.
They will just reply: Rabiot is not technical for us, we need some Barca Dna player.
And guys aren't looking at those other factors like balance, defense, at least 1 stronger guy out of 3, some thugish energy to shake our schoolboy team etc.
Guys here don't understand that, but this is the reason why Rakitic has played:
1. Rakitic 51, 57, 51, 55=214 matches in the last 4 seasons
2. Busquets 47, 53, 48, 50=198
3. Iniesta 42, 44, 37, 44=166 matches
Rakitic is playing more than any other midfielder.
Yet, we all agree that technically he is way weaker than at least Busquets and Iniesta.
There is a reason why a guy like Rakitic is playing THAT much.
And a reason is in lines what I am talking about.
He is the only guy who is bringing balance, some muscles and some physical strength to our midfield.
As long as Busi is at Barca, Rakitic will need to play ALL THE TIME since he is the only option for some muscles since Cdm (busi) and all Cams or left Cms are extremely light.
So, when some guys say: Arthur will bench Raki after 10 matches... how? Please, how?
You can't sub the only physically stronger guy for another technical player.
** CF for headers and feet goals someone like Benzema.
I liked Lewa but he is lazy lately and Bayern's fans say that he sucks in KO matches.
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God Serena
New member
How much I hate when people say genuinely dumb shit like "Rakitic is an elite passer" as if you've never watched a single fucking Barca game in your entire life. Either watch Barca play or shut your idiotic mouth. You're almost as deluded as the Gomes fanboys. There's nothing valuable to even be said here, Rakitic offers next to nothing going forward and I can't even remember the last time he had a good performance with key passes or even game control. If you want to consider him "Elite" because he can backpass like a master then feel free but until you grow a few brain cells I will continue to laugh at you.
FCBarca
Mike the Knife
Thiago looked really great, only to be outshined by Iniesta but clear how much quality he has and how much we currently miss
Kul_z
Senior Member
Rakitic is a ellite passer, as we saw hundred of times here in barca. Thing is, this season he and iniesta were poor and played it safe(i think thats due to ev tactics)
clemente
New member
I watched every barca game for I don't even know how many years now you little disgusting fuckwit. Don't tell me about backpasses when he has more forward passes than any RM midfielder. And why would he offer something offensively when he is playing as a double pivot, he is playing the same position as Busquets and has more key passes/assists, so Busquets is even worse passer than Rakitic according to your stupid logic?
Raketa10
Senior Member
He was poor? Dude this was Rakitic’s best season at Barca.
Kul_z
Senior Member
In terms of passing
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