Hans-Dieter Flick

[khaled_a_d]

No. Pedri is slow and weak.

Running the most doesn't necessarily make you the most physical.

He is niether weak or slow, at all. And running the most is one of the criterion to make ypu more physical players, fpr fact.
And someone like Frenkie is more athletic than any PSG midfielder.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Of course they did. They played 3 midfielders constantly. Rodri, KDB, Gundogan... these were always playing for City. So the template is surely 4-3-3. Grealish left, Haaland center, Foden right. 4-3-3 is the main platform. Of course from that you have a large number of variations.

Pep was never just dependent on the midfield trio to control the game. A player like Dani Alves was equally important to our midfield dominance to our own midfielder, and his decline was massive part to the decline of our midfield.

If you keep looking at the midfield trio, then you are simply having a tunnel vision in this topic.

Pep for example rarely tried to increase number of midfielders to control the game, but always looked at the other two lines to create midfield superiority.

It is the main thing we lack atm. The other 7 men don't create that numerical superiority, but rather stretch our midfield.

Similar to what happened when Messi moved to AM under Lucho. It forced Rakitic to cover for Alves and it fucked our midfield, despite the fact that theoretically it looked like Messi was 4th midfielder in this set up.

 

[jamrock]

All coaches try to add to Midfield superiority with the other lines, doesn't change the fact that the Midfield base was 3 man.

Well all coaches except flick, he's tries to add numbers to the attack to build superiority, that's just fundamental to his core and score 3+ goals per game, a to account for the position likely getting two with his tactics

 

[serghei]

I disagree completely. Hell, at Pep, even used Bernardo as a winger despite not having pace to give him extra control in midfield when needed. When he had Mahrez, he played a more typical 4-3-3. With Mahrez, Sane, Sterling.

He did the opposite of what you say. Pep is always about securing midfield. Would load as much as 5 players there if needed. Of course it helped having a beast like Walker who could pose attacking threat on the right if Bernardo went inside. That's not the point.

 

[JamDav1982]

False.

Almost all coaches now are setting up with the double pivot and a clearly defined more attacking player on front of that.

 

[serghei]

All coaches try to add to Midfield superiority with the other lines, doesn't change the fact that the Midfield base was 3 man.

Well all coaches except flick, he's tries to add numbers to the attack to build superiority, that's just how fundamental core to score 3+ goals per game, a account for the position likely getting two with his tactics

3 or more. At a minimum he played with 3.

Check how many serious games Pep played with only 2 out of his midfielders on the field. Which were mainly KDB, Gundogan, Rodri, Stones. Or pre Rodri and Stones with only 2 out of Fernandinho, Bernardo, David Silva, Gundogan, or De Bruyne.

 

[JamDav1982]

3 or more.

Check how many serious games Pep played with only 2 out of his midfielders on the field. Which were mainly KDB, Gundogan, Rodri, Stones.

Pep has played double pivot for years on and off.. mostly on.

Quite clearly two deeper and one more attacking midfielder on front of them in the set up.

Played it last season and this also.. with Reijnders/Nico struggling with it a bit.

Its where Gundogan played the season before Barca signed him.

It is also how Spain played last summer and currently are.

It is how near enough every team in the World Cup will set up also.

 

[jamrock]

Closest pep has come to playing a pure 4231 similar to what flick & other coaches are doing is last season & we saw how that worked out.

3 man Midfield, a box or something that's gives him superiority in what he's said 1m times is the most important area of the field.

Yes other players from different positions help, but that's tactics 101, every coach does that, players are static in their positions

 

[JamDav1982]

No team is trying to play a strict 4231 not even Barca but City have played double pivot in centre midfield for years and still are now.

They have almost all adapted for now to have a double pivot in build up to offer better options in building up from back.

Rodri didnt just improve and have more freedom from thin air.. he has more freedom in a two.

Xavi tried 3 man midfield.. it failed... most top coaches play double pivot in build up now.

 

[serghei]

There is no such thing. You say he played double pivot, and then list 4 midfielders. Stones, Gundogan, Rodri, and KDB. That's a triple pivot there.

Find me games where Pep ditched one of his many midfielders in favor of Foden at no10. He always played a minimum of 3 in midfield. But if the game required it, he loaded more into that area. Including Bernardo who was not a traditional 1 vs 1 pacy winger, but a former midfielder himelf. After Mahrez got replaced with Bernardo, the midfield superiority increased.

 

[JamDav1982]

There is no such thing. You say he played double pivot, and then list 4 midfielders. Stones, Gundogan, Rodri, and KDB. That's a triple pivot there.

Who listed four midfielders?

 

[serghei]

The most light midfield Pep played at City is when he had three typical wingers in the squad in Mahrez, Sterling, and Sane. And it was still a 3 man midfield. Sterling, Mahrez, Sane, Aguero rarely played at the same time, and certainly not vs any serious opposition.

 

[JamDav1982]

The most light midfield Pep played at City is when he had three typical wingers in the squad in Mahrez, Sterling, and Sane. And it was still a 3 man midfield. Sterling, Mahrez, Sane, Aguero rarely played at the same time, and certainly not vs any serious opposition.

It was a double pivot when got best out of Rodri and won CL etc.

IT was double pivot which allowed Rodri more freedom to get forward and help towards balondor for both club and country.

Who claimed City played with four midfielders?

That just more you not having clue how City played.

 

[serghei]

It was a double pivot.

Who claimed City played with four midfielders?

That just more you not having clue how City played.

You just implied it. Said Stones would move up in midfield. But then you already had Gundogan there, and Rodri. And KDB played often. So probably he was there also. That's 4 midfielders.

And the two wingers were Bernardo + Grealish, forgot about him. Don't know if you noticed, but Griealish didn't really play like a traditional winger at City. He scored 5 goals in 50 matches in 2022-23. His game was exactly tailored on ball retention and quick circulation. Benefiting midfielders even more.

 

[JamDav1982]

You just implied it. Stones moved in midfield. But then you already had Gundogan there, and Rodri. And KDB played often. So probably he was there also. That's 4 midfielders, plus Bernardo most likely.

AND Grealish, forgot about him. Don't know if you noticed, but Griealish didn't really play like a traditional winger at City. He scored 5 goals in 50 matches in 2022-23.

No.. you just have no idea how City played and couldnt understand what being told.

'You implied it' = I was wrong.

Stones was used by Pep to step into midfield and add numbers when one of Gundo/Rodri moved forward and maintain that shape.

Grealish played as a wide player to hold ball and take it up the park.

All been long discussed.