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Gato's biggest mistake was equating assists with playmaking. Other than that he's been brand new.

Yeah Mbappe is not an instinctual number 9, Ronaldo always had that in his locker - to become that with age. Mbappe is a through and through wide player to me.

Never denied he is a good player to a point. Just not the world-class player their fans think he is. Is he really great at set pieces? He hardly ever scores from free kicks, some of his delivery can be good true but they went years without scoring a corner. Not his fault though as Maguire...

Fernandes for example, in terms of on the ball, would have been amazing in the 90s PL. And his deficiences off it (headless chicken pressing) would have been less important, as most teams played chaotically then.

Michael Laudrup was a playmaker I would say, but could get assists too. I honestly don't think it is. I think it's his style of play. He looks for the final ball every time and has been the same under three or four managers now. I just think he's a frantic chaos merchant. His short game is...

I did think about KDB, and Ozil is a good shout too. I think they're more hybrids - they are more about cutting edge than full blown playmaker like D Silva, Ribery or Iniesta, but they're not just focused fully on chance creation as Fernandes tends to be (well De Bruyne isn't anyway).

Maybe I was harsh calling him one dimensional. I can concede maybe I was hasty. But I think it's fair to say he's less into th general play than Neymar, Hazard, Ribery.

The latter much more,. Someone who keeps the play going, is great on the half-turn, dribbles well in tight spaces to open space, links up well does 'good intelligent footballer' thing throughout the 90. David Silva, Iniesta, Hazard, Neymar types. I wouldn't call a chance creator a playmaker...

'In modern sense where folk extend it to attackers term is basically 'setting players up'' No it isn't. I even told you two or three times that assisting isn't playmaking.

Wingers can definitely be playmakers. Even if you think I am giving Salah more credit in that realm than he deserves, others have been mentioned.

Yeah people say 'how can he win it with that Portugal team?' (though his Portugal team-mates were always underrated as an excuse for him. But that is a strawman. He doesn't have to win it, just do well. Forlan, Modric, Rodriguez, Hagi, Stoitchkov and varius others have all done well with...

That's what I mean. His passes are pretty basic and happen in the final third. He doesn't thread balls through eyes of needles or anything. People say Salah can't do anything from deep. Last night he played a lovely pass through to Nunez from his own half. It wasn't amazing but it was nice and...

Only if he is paying, the tight cunt.

Exactly, he's not a playmaker. This is weird with people acting like he's a playmaker extraordinaire because he gets assists...

You are simplifying and strawmanning what i said, but ok. I am tired from constant debate today anyway, so we will leave it there. Especially if you are just gonna make snarky comments.

The point I am making is that he clearly can dribble very well at his best, and that he has that brilliant pass in his locker, to an extent Vini doesn't, even if his game changes across the years.

Fair enough, agree with bits and pieces and disagree with others, I respect the effort you put in and you do make some good, well-backed points so have allocated a like but cba arguing about it. All I have done today is discuss Lewa, Ronaldo and Vini. I am all debated out almost :lol:

Also, have I even insulted him as a player? I said he's one of the best players in the world I said his game is quite repetitive and he has less playmaking quality than Neymar, Hazard and Salah. What is wrong with that? It is likely the truth. :lol:

:lol: You are clearly looking for a fight, or have a love for Vini. By less dimensional, I just meant those other players have more ability in general play, the same way Ribery did. I never said Vinicius is poor at it, just that he's rather repetitive and his game is mostly about pace...

He was invisible in most of his CL finals and didn't score in some semis too. Again, as I said, some other games he scored when ties were finished. We all watched the games mate and have the records, you cannot deny it. That's a rookie mistake. A lot of what leads to shooting and chances...