Who should be Barça's next coach after Lucho?

[BBZ8800]

He didn't get fired mid-season like Rafa though.

There was a talk about this a few times.

Barca didn't fire coaches and didn't change players too often because we had a best era ever from 2004 or 2006 till today.
When you are winning everything, you don't need to change too much or too fast.

In the days before 2006, when we were just "a normal" club, we used to act the same as RM and other clubs.
Look at early 00's for example:

1999/00: Van Gaal left the club in anger at the end of a season
2000/01: Serra Ferrer appointed after Van Gaal, and Ferrer was fired after 31 rounds (we were 17 points behind Real)
= Carles Rexach was appointed right away and managed to secure a CL spot with Rivaldo's bicycle kick in the 90th minute in a 3:2 win against Valencia in the last round
2001/02: Rexach continued as a coach, but was fired at the end of a season
2002/03: Van Gaal returned, but was fired after 19 rounds since we were 20 points behind leaders Real Sociedad, and we were on the 12th place
= Antic stepped in and led Barca to a 6th place (Uefa cup spot)
Antic was fired and Barca hired Rijkaard that summer

-- so, in 5 seasons: 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003 we had: Van Gaal, Ferrer, Rexach, Van Gaal, Antic and Rijkaard.
6 coaches in 5 seasons.
Even RM can't beat that record in their most crazy eras.

Again, it is "easy" to be "Barca" and don't fire coaches when you win 6 La ligas in 8 seasons.
In some other eras, when we didn't have Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and all this success, we were the SAME as RM or any other club.

 

[Horatio]

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]

You are right my man, I do believe success has something to do with how things played out. But like I said, it's not so much why or how things came to be, I mentioned what the current general perception is on that matter in regards to Barca vs Real.

 

[JamDav1982]

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]

You are right my man, I do believe success has something to do with how things played out. But like I said, it's not so much why or how things came to be, I mentioned what the current general perception is on that matter in regards to Barca vs Real.

Which is a different argument to who should be in charge.

There is plenty of room for an outspoken manager that fits with what Barcelona are known for.

Cruyff who had more influence on Barca and its philosophy than anyone in recent years was one of the most outspoken managers ever.

This idea that a 'stoic' manager who appears intelligent is only what fits with the philosophy is just wrong.

 

[DonAK]

@BBZ8800

I don't really hate on Koeman, I just think he would be more of the same and too similar to Lucho and there are questions about whether we want that right now.

He is also a taskmaster and got a strong character, a very strong character. If Messi clashed with Lucho who got a strong character himself, then what do you see happening with the taskmaster Koeman if he gets mad at him if he walks in a game? Obviously Koeman might tone down, but it's hard to keep your true self suppressed for too long.

I see a clash of egos coming if he is appointed, and a potentially big one if he clashes with the wrong player like Messi.

Sampaoli got a strong character too, but he is a very good motivational coach as well and managed to control some very hot-headed Chile players, and even got a primadonna like Nasri to play for HIM and Sevilla.

What Koeman has on his side is the fact that he is a former Barca legend, hero of 1992.

 

[BBZ8800]

According to Francesc Aguilar of Mundo Deportivo, Robert Fernandez is a big fan of Valverde and has requested him to hold off a contract extension with Athletic Bilbao. Says Valverde is a candidate Bartomeu would be fine with too and that Ernesto Valverde himself is conflicted between the possible option of becoming Barcelona's coach and continuity with Athletic Bilbao.

Sport now also says that Valverde is the 1st pick in this moment:
http://www.sport-english.com/en/news/barca/jorge-sampaoli-winning-barcelona-fan-polls-replace-lucho-5872017

"Jorge Sampaoli should be Barcelona's next manager, if the club's board listen to their fans. In all polls conducted after Luis Enrique revealed he would be leaving in the summer, the Argentine coach of Sevilla won out.

However the club's posture doesn't initially seem to be in line with that of the supporters. They are interesting in having a ex-player in charge, and for that Ernesto Valverde would fit the bill. However he has only won two titles in Greece and one Spanish Super Cup (against Barcelona)."

 

[Horatio]

This idea that a 'stoic' manager who appears intelligent is only what fits with the philosophy is just wrong.

Guess what, I actually agree with you. I just hope the board does and just decides on a coach based on his qualities.

The point I was trying to get across is that I fear that the image Barca build up the last decade might sway the board and consider Sampaoli not fit.

 

[BBZ8800]

@BBZ8800

I don't really hate on Koeman, I just think he would be more of the same and too similar to Lucho and there are questions about whether we want that right now.

He is also a taskmaster and got a strong character, a very strong character. If Messi clashed with Lucho who got a strong character himself, then what do you see happening with the taskmaster Koeman if he gets mad at him if he walks in a game? Obviously Koeman might tone down, but it's hard to keep your true self suppressed for too long.

Ok, let's move to Valverde.
We know that Sampaoli is slightly hot headed, Koeman is cold and don't want conflicts.
Eusebio said today that he is not interested in a job, and Valverde is now the 1st pick.

You guys probably followed him more.
Apart from tactics which seemed good and similar to Barca, what is his personality?
How will he clash with MSN? How will he handle pressure etc?

 

[FlaFCB]

Quite maddening to know this board will go for the safest bet, while Sampaoli is available.

But if it's between valverde and koeman, I hope Valverde accepts it.

 

[DonAK]

Ok, let's move to Valverde.
We know that Sampaoli is slightly hot headed, Koeman is cold and don't want conflicts.
Eusebio said today that he is not interested in a job, and Valverde is now the 1st pick.

You guys probably followed him more.
Apart from tactics which seemed good and similar to Barca, what is his personality?
How will he clash with MSN? How will he handle pressure etc?

I'd say he's a bit timid to be fair, again question marks over him ability to handle egos and big players. Sampaoli's a bit hot headed perhaps and very passionate, but even Pep would jump up and down on the sidelines, barking orders and even cuss at players(Alexis anyone?) if they didn't follow his instructions correctly, and even our GK coach Jose Ramon de la Fuente routinely gets sent off to the stands for barking at officials.

I doubt Sampaoli would have troubles handling MSN when M and N are big fans of him.

 

[JamDav1982]

Quite maddening to know this board will go for the safest bet, while Sampaoli is available.

But if it's between valverde and koeman, I hope Valverde accepts it.

Koeman has been good in England and less arrogant than used to be.

He had a tricky situation with Lukaku last summer who despite not being MSN level clearly is his most powerful player and he handled it really well.

Would rather Koeman than Valverde.

First choice would be Pochetino but Spurs have some good years ahead and wont happen.

 

[FlaFCB]

Koeman has been good in England and less arrogant than used to be.

He had a tricky situation with Lukaku last summer who despite not being MSN level clearly is his most powerful player and he handled it really well.

Would rather Koeman than Valverde.

First choice would be Pochetino but Spurs have some good years ahead and wont happen.

Pressure in Can Barça is worse. I don't want neither, but Koeman could have a fallout with one of the players. He might be more level headed now, but some things never change.

 

[BarçaBarça]

Any possibility at all that Messi will bring this up in contract-talks? (on a "hint at it"/"express the desire"/"insist"/"force through"-spectrum)

Surely that would be listened to by the board..

 

[DonAK]

Any possibility at all that Messi will bring this up in contract-talks? (on a "hint at it"/"express the desire"/"insist"/"force through"-spectrum)

Perhaps he'll start following Man Utd on instagram once the rumors about other candidates not named Sampaoli intensifies

You never know. Messi doesn't seem like that kind of person, but no one except Messi, his father and Bartomeu who personally will negotiate with them, will know what is said and done. Doubt much will get leaked as each part will know who told the press if only three people are involved in the process.

 

[BBZ8800]

I'd say he's a bit timid to be fair, again question marks over him ability to handle egos and big players. Sampaoli's a bit hot headed perhaps and very passionate, but even Pep would jump up and down on the sidelines, barking orders and even cuss at players(Alexis anyone?) if they didn't follow his instructions correctly, and even our GK coach Jose Ramon de la Fuente routinely gets sent off to the stands for barking at officials.

I doubt Sampaoli would have troubles handling MSN when M and N are big fans of him.

About Sampaoli, I know that lots of you don't like history, but look at this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FC_Barcelona_managers

Since 1987, we had only 1 non European coach: Tata
Also, all coaches were Spanish, Dutch and 3 random guys: Robson, sacked after 1 season, Tata, left after 1 season, and Antic (a former coach or RM and won a title with AM before coming to Barca), sacked after 3 Months.

Our ALL Cls in the last 30 years:
1992 Dutch Cruijff
2006 Dutch Rijkaard
2009 Spanish Pep
2011 Spanish Pep
2015 Spanish Lucho

All La liga titles:
1991 Dutch Cruijff
1992 Dutch Cruijff
1993 Dutch Cruijff
1994 Dutch Cruijff
1998 Dutch Van Gaal
1999 Dutch Van Gaal
2005 Dutch Rijkaard
2006 Dutch Rijkaard
2009 Spanish Pep, La Masia's kid
2010 Spanish Pep, La Masia's kid
2011 Spanish Pep, La Masia's kid
2013 Spanish Tito, La Masia's kid
2015 Spanish Lucho, former Barca's player
2016 Spanish Lucho, former Barca's player

Years with coaches NOT connected with Barca in any way:
1987 Aragones, - La Ligas
1996 Robson, - La Ligas
2003 Antic, - La Ligas
2014 Tata, - La Ligas

In the last 30 years:
8 La ligas won by Dutch managers (4 Cruijff, 2 Van Gaal, 2 Rijkaard)
6 La ligas won by La Masia kids or former Barca players (3 Pep, 2 Lucho, 1 Tito)
0 La ligas won by outsiders

2 Cls won by Dutch managers (Cruijff, Rijkaard)
3 Cls won by Barca's players (2 Pep, 1 Lucho)

So, in the last 30 years, only one recipe always worked for Barca:
1. either hire Dutch coaches who's style is the closest thing to Barca's and Cruijff's style
2. or hire La Masia guys

In the last 30 years, none other option ever brought any trophies I am not counting CDRs).
So, in spite of what fans want, picking Sampaoli would be against everything what Barca has been doing in the last 30 years.
And those 30 years were the most successful years in our history.

But still, I am slightly afraid if you say that Valverde is a somewhat scared guy.

 

[BarçaBarça]

Perhaps he'll start following Man Utd on instagram once the rumors about other candidates not named Sampaoli intensifies

You never know. Messi doesn't seem like that kind of person, but no one except Messi, his father and Bartomeu who personally will negotiate with them, will know what is said and done. Doubt much will get leaked as each part will know who told the press if only three people are involved in the process.

Ah, that's true - we can actually never know. Only if we end up with a completely obscure choice, then that might indicate that Messi hasn't made any demands..