Hegemony of European Leagues

[Chygrinskiy21]

Recently with the unequal distribution of TV rights deals in Spain, Del Nido has been complaining that the Spanish League will become worse than the Scottish League in terms of predictability. While he is right, this hegemony of two clubs is not really just limited to Spain... Look at the EPL. OK, you can argue all you want for City, Arsenal, and Liverpool's chances, but what have they got to show? It really comes down to Man U-Chelsea. For other leagues, it's arguably even worse. In Portugal, for example, since Sporting won in 2002, Porto has won the league 7 times, and Benfica twice. Serie A is even worse, where, since the Calciopoli, it has been a smooth highway for Inter until this year. Bundesliga is also all Bayern Munich... Yeah, occasionally there are outliers like Borussia, Wolfsburg and Stuttgart, but seriously, out of the last 11 seasons, Bayern has won it 6 times. OK, sure, it's a little more unpredictable, but still almost the same deal. Whatever happened to unpredictability in football? Why is this? Of course, things are complicated and cannot be explain with simple linear bogus cause-effect relationships, but it's still fun to theorize, speculate, and pretend we understand more than we do...
Discuss!

 

[Madness]

Are you trying to get somebody to write your Masters Thesis for you?

 

[Ash1899]

Recently with the unequal distribution of TV rights deals in Spain, Del Nido has been complaining that the Spanish League will become worse than the Scottish League in terms of predictability. While he is right, this hegemony of two clubs is not really just limited to Spain... Look at the EPL. OK, you can argue all you want for City, Arsenal, and Liverpool's chances, but what have they got to show? It really comes down to Man U-Chelsea. For other leagues, it's arguably even worse. In Portugal, for example, since Sporting won in 2002, Porto has won the league 7 times, and Benfica twice. Serie A is even worse, where, since the Calciopoli, it has been a smooth highway for Inter until this year. Bundesliga is also all Bayern Munich... Yeah, occasionally there are outliers like Borussia, Wolfsburg and Stuttgart, but seriously, out of the last 11 seasons, Bayern has won it 6 times. OK, sure, it's a little more unpredictable, but still almost the same deal. Whatever happened to unpredictability in football? Why is this? Of course, things are complicated and cannot be explain with simple linear bogus cause-effect relationships, but it's still fun to theorize, speculate, and pretend we understand more than we do...
Discuss!

This would actually work if those clubs that you mentioned had no competition whatsoever in ther run towards their titles. Unlike La Liga where the gap between Barclona and RM AND the third place team is a massive 20-30 points, morst of the teams that you mentioned only wrap their title usually in the final few weeks or the last day. Plus, if you havent noticed, while the winners may be set, it is not always true for the team who finishes second. Plus, clubs in those leagues have the financial power to compete for the title, unlike La Liga where Barca and RM are a class apart financially from the rest of the pack.

Just listing the title winners is very weak argument imo. The question is not about who is winning the titles, it's about the competition faced towards winning those titles and no matter which way you wing it, the rest of La Liga could NEVER compete with Barca or RM for the title....

 

[bombayblue™]

Recently with the unequal distribution of TV rights deals in Spain, Del Nido has been complaining that the Spanish League will become worse than the Scottish League in terms of predictability. While he is right, this hegemony of two clubs is not really just limited to Spain... Look at the EPL. OK, you can argue all you want for City, Arsenal, and Liverpool's chances, but what have they got to show? It really comes down to Man U-Chelsea. For other leagues, it's arguably even worse. In Portugal, for example, since Sporting won in 2002, Porto has won the league 7 times, and Benfica twice. Serie A is even worse, where, since the Calciopoli, it has been a smooth highway for Inter until this year. Bundesliga is also all Bayern Munich... Yeah, occasionally there are outliers like Borussia, Wolfsburg and Stuttgart, but seriously, out of the last 11 seasons, Bayern has won it 6 times. OK, sure, it's a little more unpredictable, but still almost the same deal. Whatever happened to unpredictability in football? Why is this? Of course, things are complicated and cannot be explain with simple linear bogus cause-effect relationships, but it's still fun to theorize, speculate, and pretend we understand more than we do...
Discuss!

You don't have sides missing out on money from the sale of television rights by the FA when it comes to the Premier League and Serie A. I'm guessing its the same for the other leagues too.

 

[Poor_Sunyol]

We need a European league.

 

[10Rivaldo]

The duopolies in Spain and Scotland are nothing like the hegemony in other leagues. It's not just a matter of who ends up winning the league, it's the sheer gap in quality between the top two and the rest. Look at Serie A for example. Inter won five consecutive titles, yes. But many of them came down to the wire. Such as last year, when Inter basically had the title handed to them by Roma (who were leading with only a few matches left) when Roma lost to Sampdoria in Stadio Olimpico. And Bundesliga is the definition of unpredictable, so no argument there.

Having said that, how much would collective TV revenue change? It needs to be done to help the bottom table teams become financially healthy, yes. But in terms of competition, I fail to see how it would break down the duopoly. A bit of cash won't do anything. LOTS of cash on the other hand, Man City and Chelsea style, would. Collective TV revenue didn't break down the ManU-Arsenal duopoly in EPL, foreign investors did.

 

[Chygrinskiy21]

How much, if at all, would foreign investors change? In
My opinion, they would do more harm than good. And if the do any good, I think it will be mostly on a short term basis rather than a long term sustainable project.

In any case, TV revenue is but a minute part of the problem... You can argue for more equitative distribution of TV money, but really, at the end of the day, who the hell wants to watch Levante-Getafe, other than the local fans? It's a bit like the question of the chicken ant the egg, only much more complex with many more factors to consider, most of them beyond our sight (including TV deal figures, which I don't really know and that's why I didn't mention them in detail).

Will be interesting to see what happens in the new season with Málaga..

 

[dalitis8]

La Liga is great.

Barca and Real Madrid are the top 2 teams in Europe

 

[Robbie]

In the EPL you have the top 6 separated by 10-15 points at any given moment, but in La Liga the 3rd place club was 24 points behind Madrid. I don't know if it's a recent development, but to me it looks like the days of Deportivo, Atletico and Valencia fighting for the title are long over.

 

[Ash1899]

How much, if at all, would foreign investors change? In
My opinion, they would do more harm than good. And if the do any good, I think it will be mostly on a short term basis rather than a long term sustainable project.

In any case, TV revenue is but a minute part of the problem... You can argue for more equitative distribution of TV money, but really, at the end of the day, who the hell wants to watch Levante-Getafe, other than the local fans? It's a bit like the question of the chicken ant the egg, only much more complex with many more factors to consider, most of them beyond our sight (including TV deal figures, which I don't really know and that's why I didn't mention them in detail).

Will be interesting to see what happens in the new season with Málaga..

So what? The other clubs should just sit back and shut the fuck up? That logic is so retarded on so many levels, it aint even funny....

Remember one thing: Barca and Madrid need La Liga as much as La Liga needs them. How the heck would people start taking an interest in other clubs when they dont ever have the money to compete with the big two and buy quality players.

And believe it or not, TV rights make a massive difference. Why do you think Barca and Madrid are fighting so much to not change it? It's cauz they know their revenue will get affected which in turn would affect their ability to spend chunks of cash on new players...

 

[Chygrinskiy21]

I didn't say it's not important. And I didn't say clubs should just sit back and shut the fuck up, you're just putting words into my mouth. I'm just saying there's much more into it than TV rights and foreign investment. Nothing is ever as simple as: pour in some money = get some results.
I am just trying to get some constructive discussion going on about how to make things more just overall. It's easy to point everything to one culprit, in this case the TV rights... but I hope this thread doesn't get limited to that, because the potential scope of this discussion is far wider.

 

[dalitis8]

In the EPL you have the top 6 separated by 10-15 points at any given moment, but in La Liga the 3rd place club was 24 points behind Madrid. I don't know if it's a recent development, but to me it looks like the days of Deportivo, Atletico and Valencia fighting for the title are long over.

That was the case only last season. There were many instances of massive gaps in the EPL as well, albeit not as big as the last 2 seasons in Spain.

But why does everyone bitch about that so much? Is it because they are jealous of both Barca and Madrid for having the best players in the world and being seen as the prime destinations for all the mega-stars of world football?

Should we obsess about the precise gap between the Spanish "Big 2" and the rest of the pack? I think not, these things go round in circles, and this circle is one of total dominance by Barca and Real Madrid. Simple as.

And I am not so sure why watching a bore draw between United and let's say Sunderland is so much better than Barca thrashing Racing Santander...Plus, it's not as if Barcelona and Real Madrid never lose points to the weak La Liga teams, and when that happens it has real ramifications. Everyone has his preferences regarding competition and comptitiveness, but I think that this La Liga bashing has been carried to extremes. As for the "little 18" of Spanish football, how can they ask for more equal TV money when all the people in the world sit down to watch Barca and Madrid? They should find other ways of competing. Like attracting foreign investment, producing youth players, and being shrewd in the transfer market. For example, Sevilla have been extremely reluctant to spend since forever, Atletico have been administered with heroic impotence, and Valencia managed to bankrupt themselves with their new and massively unnecessary stadium. As for Depor, the less said, the better.

 

[Sergio]

In the case of Spain, it would seem that the feeling of both the big 2 and the rest is there is a need for a change of league structure. In the case of Madrid, Perez talks of a European league, though he talks of it as a competition that replaces the CL and runs in tandem with La Liga, rather than it becoming a new tier above it like what seems to be proposed here. Either way, its an admission that they have out grown La Liga as their principal competition. Certainly the feeling is largely reciprocated by most of the other clubs and fans, that the league needs some sort of balance brought to it, whether it be by fairer distribution of TV revenue or a reorganising like this. El Pais did an editorial about the state of La Liga at the end of this season which was very interesting. They noted that the average attendance in La Liga had remained about the same, around 29,000 - still well below the other top leagues, but consistent with other Southern European countries, mainly Italia. But, when you take the average over the season deducted all Barca and Madrid games - home and away, the average plumits to around 17k - that puts it below the likes of Holland, France and even the English lower division. The point they try to make is that yes the monopoli of the big 2 is much bemoaned by the other clubs and the Spanish population, but without them, as it stands, they have nothing of any real value in terms of a spectacle. You could argue that without them, you then have a competitive league again, which generates more interest and sustains revenue for all the other clubs and cities. But realistically losing those 2 to a higher European league would not be a good thing for the rest of La Liga.

That is why I don't agree with Del Nido, though I agree something needs to be done. I would favour a change in the distribution of TV revenue, similar to that in England. Also abolishing the very unfair tax breaks Madrid and Barca get through their special charitable status. That way you keep the best the league has to offer, but also give the rest a chance to put on a show without living beyond their means - Depor, Valencia, soon Villarreal.