Hans-Dieter Flick

[Nello]

Why are people discussing our double pivot when it's literally one of our strongest parts of our team? Lamine, Rapha, Frenkie and Pedri are literally the only top players delivering in the team.
It's pretty clear as both Jamdav and Khaled are pointing out, that the lack of quality from others players, such as Kounde, Ferran, Fermin etc are creating more turnovers, and shitty situations during buildup that FDJ and Pedri need to make up for.

 

[serghei]

Yes, but Gundo and Rodri moving forward doesn't change that both them and KDB are central midfielders.

This is irrelevant. Xavi moved up a lot often and Pique would push up. So what?

 

[JamDav1982]

Why are people discussing our double pivot when it's literally one of our strongest parts of our team? Lamine, Rapha, Frenkie and Pedri are literally the only top players delivering in the team.
It's pretty clear as both Jamdav and Khaled are pointing out, that the lack of quality from others players, such as Kounde, Ferran, Fermin etc are creating more turnovers, and shitty situations during buildup that FDJ and Pedri need to make up for.

Because they scream 'play like PSG'.

Also they are Xavi fan boys who made every excuse under sun for him and really thats at the heart of it.

'Flick bad'.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yes, but Gundo and Rodri moving forward doesn't change that both them and KDB are central midfielders.

This is irrelevant. Xavi moved up a lot often and Pique would push up. So what?

They played in a double pivot and not both would move forward.... like at Barca.

The relevance of Stones moving up is to try and educate you how City operated that double pivot.

Still dont get it though as usual.

KDB was clearly the AM that season of the three and played off Haaland a lot more with freedom to go find ball.

 

[serghei]

Olmo's heat map makes it pretty clear. This is a useless conversation. Olmo plays as almost 2nd striker, much like Muller did in 2020. This is Flick's system, for better or worse, underpowered midfield, sacrificing control for one extra attacker to use in his pressing oriented approach.

 

[jamrock]

They are pointing out nonsense the team created enough with those exact players last season, actual for a few months it has a player from the 3rd division that played out his skin.

The issues isn't de jong & pedri, the issue is system that breaks too easily when it bends

 

[JamDav1982]

Olmo's heat map makes it pretty clear. This is a useless conversation. Olmo plays as almost 2nd striker, much like Muller did in 2020. This is Flick's system, for better or worse, underpowered midfield, sacrificing control for one extra attacker to use in his pressing oriented approach.

Olmos heat map makes what 'clear'?

 

[jamrock]

And just to be clear it broke easily last season as well, we just created enough changes to make up for it, but when that isn't working.

We make sevilla beta, look like Sevilla prime

 

[JamDav1982]

And just to be clear it broke easily last season as well, we just created enough changes to make up for it, but when that isn't working.

We make sevilla beta, look like Sevilla prime

Haha no.. it impacts both sides of ball.

The double pivot allows for more attacking players for good and bad.

 

[Nello]

Also it was'nt as if we lost to RM due to lack of control in midfield. We have seen plenty of times that FDJ and Pedri can dominate whatever 2,3 or even 4 man midfield that they decide to field.
Issue is when our backline can't play out of pressure, our forwards and 10 are gassed and have no hold up play whatsoever, and we constantly create turnovers due to shitty touches and passes.
Rasyh was one of our better forwards and there was a 10min spell in the second half where the guy lost the ball 3 consecutive times in build up due to bad control. Fermin, besides his goal, was quite bad aswell. Lamine injured.
No need to comment on Ferran's contribution hopefully. Szczesny levels below Garcia on ball.

 

[serghei]

I don't have an issue with it that much. The main reason why we scored 102 goals last season in the league only, more than any Pep side ever I think, is because Flick is not as focused on controlling the midfield.

But... if the press is anything else than top notch (at least for La Liga standards)... it all goes to shite, because the midfield is too thin. Once the first wave of pressing is breached, it's a mountain to climb for Pedri and De Jong. And the lack of control in midfield is exposed very badly.

 

[jamrock]

Also it was'nt as if we lost to RM due to lack of control in midfield. We have seen plenty of times that FDJ and Pedri can dominate whatever 2,3 or even 4 man midfield that they decide to field.
Issue is when our backline can't play out of pressure, our forwards and 10 are gassed and have no hold up play whatsoever, and we constantly create turnovers due to shitty touches and passes.
Rasyh was one of our better forwards and there was a 10min spell in the second half where the guy lost the ball 3 consecutive times in build up due to bad control. Fermin, besides his goal, was quite bad aswell. Lamine injured.
No need to comment on Ferran's contribution hopefully. Szczesny levels below Garcia on ball.

We were good for about 15-20 minutes, apart from that Madrid were playing the game exactly how they wanted

Pedri & de jong didn't dominate a thing, DA FUQ.

When yamal moved central we started to create again that's how little creativity they added to the game

 

[JamDav1982]

Flick cant win.

Folk moan about him not trying to control ball out in games... when he has done that.

Barca were doing it v Inter and could see Frenkie and Pedri trying to calm down certain players being over elaborate.. this happens a lot.

Then Inter score from 2 Araujo fuck ups and its moaning about how he didnt sit deeper.

 

[serghei]

The only thing I have an issue with is Flick's adaptive skills are low. All he knows is mad press, and if that is not up to par, we look like shite.

 

[JamDav1982]

The only thing I have an issue with is Flick's adaptive skills are low. All he knows is mad press, and if that is not up to par, we look like shite.

Thats not really true though.

Barca sought to control game out and take ball away from Inter for example... but Araujo arrived.

Now could say its his fault for putting on Araujo but not sure there was an alternative.

I think Flick knows Barca lack in power/height and takes the risks to try and play in way to get past that.

It has worked well so far but is risky and probably fucking knackering mentally to play in.

Flick has tried a ton of different things in games to win/come back in them.

Folk just make out high line = no other adaption at all.