Hans-Dieter Flick

[JamDav1982]

Of course... failing to defend is not dealing with it and taking too many risks in final third.

But Inter scored with two men in box and it was a situation of basic defending Araujo failed on.

Not left exposed by system. He is supposed to be a 1v1 defender not being caught flat footed by a CB.

Of the four fuck ups Araujo made v Inter and Dortmund there were numbers back on 3 of them and folk would go mad if sat back and Inter scored after way that game went.

 

[RedxMAK]

Unironically, it is insane how Flick is playing more Cruyffian football than Pep Guardiola did. No one really remembers but Tiki Taka was only played under Pep’s Barcelona, Cruyff’s team controlled possession but was way more attacking and unbalanced just like Flick’s Barcelona

 

[khaled_a_d]

I said you claimed he needed a certain profile of defenders to make his system work, he has those defenders at Bayern & keeper and it didn't work.

I won't address your point about Alaba & davis etc because that's complete nonsense, they were all great defenders & players that fix exactly the profile you said we needed under flick and the record speaks for itself.

All those teams don't have great defenses or better CBs like YOU claimed PSG has, what they have are managers that understand that you can't leave your defenders hopelessly exposed consistently and except to win at the highest level

Even in the final he actually won, it was his goat keeper that gave him the W.

Let's simplify this to you:

Bayern defense was far from an elite historical defefense. But it had the basic components. A world class fullback, even if he had his defensive issues at the time, a solid starting athletic CB in Alaba, and a tall experienced CB in Boateng.

Far from ideal, but it was workable.


And here is the part you miss: they weren't bad in 2020 when they played a full team (Lewa barely played in CL next year and they had injury ussues) because this defense still managed to step up.

I don't care how many goals they conceded in the league. The team conceded 3 goals in 5 knockour games, all 3 where in games they destroyed the opponents.

I don't care if Barca concede against Olympiacos when we know we can win by 3 or more goals, defense ls will always have those lapses anyways.

I care that at most important part of the season, each and every one of them were trash in CB.

Each and every one of them, was trash in CL & Europa League under Xavi.

But you will have your way of spinning it that if a CB get a red card, then it isn't the defenders issues we get destroyed.


As for PSG, nothing I said isn't consistent, PSG valued World Class CB and didn't stop until they found one. But even this World Class CB will have their bad days, or days when fans say they got exposed. But at many important occasions, they can step up an extra level. Pacho could do it, Beraldo couldn't and that is why he is now a 4th CB rather than a starting one.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Any of the two would improve things but Flick is stubborn and won't adjust, and the economic situation means you can't throw 150m at the defensive problems and make them disappear.

And this is the problem when someone mentions what Lucho would do with this squad. Or Pep in the years before.

Lucho bought 3 CB within two years, never mind what he did in the attack (literally buying an entire attacking line up) or midfield.

With Barca, he demanded a historic summer transfer to join.

Pep finished 4th in his first EPL, before making an overhaul to the squad and dominating. When joined Barca, he did the same and demanded a big transfer budget.

Top coaches don't make mediocre players good, they replace them. Flick Germany stint and his age tanked his value that he had to accept working in environment like that. The Lucho and Pep of the world would demand different defenders than the one we have.

 

[DonAK]

Better CBs can absolutely make a big difference.

Some things you can blame Flick's system, but you cannot disregard that this group of CBs of Araujo, Cubarsi, Eric have made a lot of bad mistakes vs. top teams in Europe. Not to forget Inigo also losing it vs. Inter last season.

More than half of the goals we conceded were due to our players simply making basic schoolboy errors, and if you want to win the Champions League you simply cannot have that. Over 38 games in a league season you can somehow a lot of times compensate for it, but in a knockout tournament it is simply not possible.

That doesn't mean that Cubarsi cannot develop into a great player in a few years or that Araujo cannot rectify his mental mistakes. They might do it.

But if you truly want to challenge for it then you either need these players to make a massive jump right now or get better defenders. It's as simple as that.

Which is why an established CB(or two) + RB/LB should be top priorities for us as well as a #9. Assuming we're still not penny pinching which could be the case yet again in 2026.

 

[jamrock]

Let's simplify this to you:

Bayern defense was far from an elite historical defefense. But it had the basic components. A world class fullback, even if he had his defensive issues at the time, a solid starting athletic CB in Alaba, and a tall experienced CB in Boateng.

Far from ideal, but it was workable.


And here is the part you miss: they weren't bad in 2020 when they played a full team (Lewa barely played in CL next year and they had injury ussues) because this defense still managed to step up.

I don't care how many goals they conceded in the league. The team conceded 3 goals in 5 knockour games, all 3 where in games they destroyed the opponents.

I don't care if Barca concede against Olympiacos when we know we can win by 3 or more goals, defense ls will always have those lapses anyways.

I care that at most important part of the season, each and every one of them were trash in CB.

Each and every one of them, was trash in CL & Europa League under Xavi.

But you will have your way of spinning it that if a CB get a red card, then it isn't the defenders issues we get destroyed.


As for PSG, nothing I said isn't consistent, PSG valued World Class CB and didn't stop until they found one. But even this World Class CB will have their bad days, or days when fans say they got exposed. But at many important occasions, they can step up an extra level. Pacho could do it, Beraldo couldn't and that is why he is now a 4th CB rather than a starting one.

You don't care that he's conceded 39 goals across 2 teams because it lays waste to your point about the profile of defenders he needs to be better in defense.

No one said they were historically there you go ahead saying things I didn't say.

But it was elite, I can find multiple post of you raving about Alaba, davis, kimmich ect in the Bayern defense, but now they weren't all that? Come on bro.

They exactly fit the profile of defenders you claim flick needs at Barcelona to fix the defense and the results are what the results are.

They conceded 3 goals in a covid CL against the worse Barca In decades, lyon & a poor Chelsea, before needing their KEEPER to save them in the final, because his tactics had PSG getting in behind almost at will.

One minute you said PSG don't have great CBs, when multiple post you have said, they have World Class CBs

None of their CBs are considered WC many any in football, they have a tactical setup that doesn't leave good CBs exposed.

I don't know what you're talking about regarding defenders and red cards.

These are the facts we've seen flick with 3 separate teams, 2 of those teams has the perfect defenders for his tactics

Still had a leaky defense.

 

[jamrock]

Pep & lucho brought in new player and always made adjustments to their system, what has flick showed he's willing to change across is 3 jobs?

Absolutely nothing, so giving him prime pique & puyol with no adjustments in tactics will end the exact same way is my point

 

[Richard.H]

And this is the problem when someone mentions what Lucho would do with this squad. Or Pep in the years before.

Lucho bought 3 CB within two years, never mind what he did in the attack (literally buying an entire attacking line up) or midfield.

With Barca, he demanded a historic summer transfer to join.

Pep finished 4th in his first EPL, before making an overhaul to the squad and dominating. When joined Barca, he did the same and demanded a big transfer budget.

Top coaches don't make mediocre players good, they replace them. Flick Germany stint and his age tanked his value that he had to accept working in environment like that. The Lucho and Pep of the world would demand different defenders than the one we have.

QFT

 

[DonAK]

Pep was spending 500m on defenders and getting 5 goals put past his team in CL as heavy favorites. Not sure he's the right example to use.

 

[JamDav1982]

Flick played Frenkie more advanced and usual folk wept about it.

Now it is all about how he never tries to make adjustments.

He literally won many games by adjusting it last season.

Just utter garbage from folk that dont have clue what watching.

See how adjusted v Benfica... both Benfica away games... v Celta at home.. Real away to win 4-0.. many more.

 

[jamrock]

Pep was spending 500m on defenders and getting 5 goals put past his team in CL as heavy favorites. Not sure he's the right example to use.

Because his tactics was poor & he didn't win another CL until he made better choices.

It proves my point actually.

How many times have we said pep out coached himself in a champions league game?

No matter how good the players are if the tactics is poor, the result will be the same.

Flick system over exposes even the best defenders and that's fine, as long as he out scores the opposition, has a class shot stopper and manages the game in the closing minutes.

Once he does that, then the better defenders can make up the difference.

 

[jamrock]

And this is the problem when someone mentions what Lucho would do with this squad. Or Pep in the years before.

Lucho bought 3 CB within two years, never mind what he did in the attack (literally buying an entire attacking line up) or midfield.

With Barca, he demanded a historic summer transfer to join.

Pep finished 4th in his first EPL, before making an overhaul to the squad and dominating. When joined Barca, he did the same and demanded a big transfer budget.

Top coaches don't make mediocre players good, they replace them. Flick Germany stint and his age tanked his value that he had to accept working in environment like that. The Lucho and Pep of the world would demand different defenders than the one we have.

At no point did I say don't need better defenders, I've literally said multiple times next summer we need a CB.

We just have more important issues in the team

Goalkeepr & LF

And also when flick gets those better defenders if his tactics don't make the small changes needed the result will be the same.

Unless Garcia saved us, which will only prove my point right again

 

[JamDav1982]

Pep also won the CL when he went double pivot and got the best out of Rodri etc.

Hardly proving someone right who argues so strongly about single pivot being the most effective.

You miss the point that it took Barca losing Inigo on a free to bring in the players did.

So it took weakening the defence to do that...they didnt just choose GK/LW over CB.. they weakened CB to do that and it is not a choice anyway. Folk expect more then injuries and players leaving for free again to free up room to spend 25m on a player and salary for a season.

This idea the club acted magnificently with their choices is just shite as it shouldnt take that to sign players at all and have so little room in market.

The reason Barca couldnt sign a CB is they have largely fucked up the FFP and needed more injuries etc to even sign the players they did.

Garcia making saves is Jamrocks get out clause if Barca win.

Yet claims Flicks system even Neuer couldnt save conceding so many.