Hans-Dieter Flick

Hansi Flick - how do we rate him?


  • Total voters
    131

mc_lovin

Senior Member
It's completely possible to play high risk and win the CL, but you need a balanced squad with more quality in all positions. There's no way the team concedes as many goals as we did vs Inter with a top tier defender in the backline. No matter the risky tactics. We probably knock Inter out in a very clear manner with a solid CB leading the defense.

But let's face it. Araujo is trash, Inigo is just a medium-level CB, not very good, Cubarsi is raw and makes frequent errors due to lack of experience... too many problems in defense because the squad is not giving you enough in that area.

The vast majority of the goals were conceded from stupid individual errors. Big errors, and not the type of errors you can pin down to Flick imo. The quality of defenders we have is not good enough to cope with Flick ball requirements. Simple as that.

The only thing Flick can be blamed for was not defending in numbers when we got ahead knowing the defense is filled with bench players and subpar defenders. But it's tough to blame him overall. We outplayed Inter.
What's there to be done though? Tah will probably arrive and at least he's huge. Hujsen is the hottest prospect, but he's expensive and do we really need another young talent?

My biggest worry is our attack next year. And GK obviously. We should get decent depth at FB rather cheaply I suppose.
 

serghei

Senior Member
In the summer we need to focus fundamentally on the defense. Like really really improve it.

We need GK, fullback, central defender, and just one good LW that can contribute from the bench.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Which team has ever done it bar Bayern and they only had to play 1 legs.

You don't need to be juve, but you have the dial it back a bit, not every touch of the ball needs push you forward for a next goal.

Possession for the sake of it is good sometimes, especially in K.O games

That doesn't prove anything, because there's no other manager who plays this ultra-offensive style other than Flick. And based on what I saw this season, his system is so potent offensively, that the style can simply be too much to handle offensively for most if not all teams around in CL at the moment.

You need just one condition to make it work. Increased quality of defenders. Having someone out there that you know he won't make stupid blunders.
 
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jamrock

Senior Member
Great post.

I was complaining about his inability to rotate since October and that we'll pay the price end of the season. And now it happened. But I'm sure his fan boys for whom he can't do anything wrong will try to say tiredness didn't play any role.

As I've said before Flick is a "sprint" manager, not a "marathon" one. He would be the best coach in history if season would last 2-3 months and he could go all in for that period with his best players. It's also the same way he won that Covid CL that still comes with a big asterisk from me (and it's not because of the 8-2). Maybe he's just not used he has to play meaningful league games in April coming from a Bayernliga where the league is basically won in August. We'll see how/if he'll adapt next season. Squad depth probably won't be much improved so he'll have to use what he'll have at his disposal better.

One thing in our favor is we won't play in CWC (ofc purely from a sporting perspective, from a financial one we could definitely use that money) so we should be more rested compared to Madrid and most other top European teams who have better squad depth. But if I see us beating a newly promoted team 7-0 again in September/October and Flick still playing Lamine and Raphinha full 90 minutes then I'll know he has not learned anything.

People here were defending Flick and saying he only rests players when his staff (physios/doctors) tell him to do that. There was a story that dr. Minarro (RIP) told Lewa he won't play in that Osasuna game that was later ofc rescheduled. So don't know if he was the one responsible to tell Flick which players he thinks are fit to play and who needs a rest (and ofc I don't want to bad mouth a dead man) but Flick should also know better.

Not many players are tired in November but they will be in April when their minutes accumulate. And starting to rest them late in the season is mostly just a damage control. He should prevent that from the start. And at the same time give fringe players a chance to also prove themselves or at least "keep them warm" in case they will be needed. Not that you then get to the Valladolid game where you not only start two players coming off longterm injuries (which itself is a big enough risk) but also 3-4 players who have not played in months despite being available.

Yeah, we had injuries first half of the season but from January to April we mostly had full bench minus MATS, AC and Bernal but Flick's squad (mis)management made his bench look even shorter than it really is.


Another thing I dislike is Flick's in game management that is basically the same as his in-season one. He can only go full speed. He can't slow down and control the game. Always looking for that forward pass (that often ends in opponent's possession so we need to waste energy to get the ball back). There are just game situations when you need to take result/opponent into account and become a bit more conservative. And when leading with just a few minutes left against an even more tired opponent that's the moment to do that. Go dribble towards a corner flag, put the ball in the stands every 10 seconds, roll on the ground for half a minute. Just whatever. That's what all experienced winning teams are doing (you can either be that - a winning team or look good in a loss, so whatever you prefer). And most of them for prolonged period. I don't want to time waste for 20-30 minutes every game like Getafe. But for the last 2-3 minutes when leading I'll absolutely take it if the alternative is to concede a late goal because we can't defend (and we've seen more than enough evidence over the years, not just this season, a word defending is not in Barca players and coaches vocabulary).

And it's not like we've not been warned before, for example league game against Atletico at Montjuic when we were pushing for a winning goal and lost. Hopefully that won't come back to bite us and we'll finish the job in El Clasico on Sunday but if we'll somehow bottle and lose La Liga for a point that Atleti game will always be the one I will look at.

Agreed many spoke about his squad utilization earlier in the season.

If he rotated more, then at this crucial point in the season he wouldn't need to be subbing in victor and fort.

Those should have been done when we were beating Teams 7-0 and still kept the first XI on more or less.
 

mc_lovin

Senior Member
In the summer we need to focus fundamentally on the defense. Like really really improve it.

We need GK, fullback, central defender, and just one good LW that can contribute from the bench.
CF will fuck us up if we don't do anything. On the wings we can at least get lucky and have a mostly injury free season (+Ferran is decent everywhere). I have zero trust in another good Lewy season.
 

jamrock

Senior Member
That doesn't prove anything, because there's no other manager who plays this ultra-offensive style other than Flick. And based on what I saw this season, his system is so potent offensively, that the style can simply be too much to handle offensively for most if not all teams around in CL at the moment.

You need just one condition to make it work. Increased quality of defenders. Having someone out there that you know he won't make stupid blunders.

He tried it 3 times, it only worked once with Bayern, under mitigating circumstances.

The sample size is more than enough, its less likely to work than work.

Nothing to do with individuals, the system is too unnecessarily risky FROM WINNING POSITIONS.

And that is key.
 

serghei

Senior Member
CF will fuck us up if we don't do anything. On the wings we can at least get lucky and have a mostly injury free season (+Ferran is decent everywhere). I have zero trust in another good Lewy season.

We created a huge amount of chances vs supposedly best defensive team in Europe at the moment without Lewandowski.
 

mc_lovin

Senior Member
He tried it 3 times, it only worked once with Bayern, under mitigating circumstances.

The sample size is more than enough, its less likely to work than work.

Nothing to do with individuals, the system is too unnecessarily risky FROM WINNING POSITIONS.

And that is key.
Winning 1 in 3 CLs for any set of players or systems is pretty brilliant, no? That's shit math honestly. Small numbers and all.
 

freetocan

Member
Great post.

I was complaining about his inability to rotate since October and that we'll pay the price end of the season. And now it happened. But I'm sure his fan boys for whom he can't do anything wrong will try to say tiredness didn't play any role.

As I've said before Flick is a "sprint" manager, not a "marathon" one. He would be the best coach in history if season would last 2-3 months and he could go all in for that period with his best players. It's also the same way he won that Covid CL that still comes with a big asterisk from me (and it's not because of the 8-2). Maybe he's just not used he has to play meaningful league games in April coming from a Bayernliga where the league is basically won in August. We'll see how/if he'll adapt next season. Squad depth probably won't be much improved so he'll have to use what he'll have at his disposal better.

One thing in our favor is we won't play in CWC (ofc purely from a sporting perspective, from a financial one we could definitely use that money) so we should be more rested compared to Madrid and most other top European teams who have better squad depth. But if I see us beating a newly promoted team 7-0 again in September/October and Flick still playing Lamine and Raphinha full 90 minutes then I'll know he has not learned anything.

People here were defending Flick and saying he only rests players when his staff (physios/doctors) tell him to do that. There was a story that dr. Minarro (RIP) told Lewa he won't play in that Osasuna game that was later ofc rescheduled. So don't know if he was the one responsible to tell Flick which players he thinks are fit to play and who needs a rest (and ofc I don't want to bad mouth a dead man) but Flick should also know better.

Not many players are tired in November but they will be in April when their minutes accumulate. And starting to rest them late in the season is mostly just a damage control. He should prevent that from the start. And at the same time give fringe players a chance to also prove themselves or at least "keep them warm" in case they will be needed. Not that you then get to the Valladolid game where you not only start two players coming off longterm injuries (which itself is a big enough risk) but also 3-4 players who have not played in months despite being available.

Yeah, we had injuries first half of the season but from January to April we mostly had full bench minus MATS, AC and Bernal but Flick's squad (mis)management made his bench look even shorter than it really is.


Another thing I dislike is Flick's in game management that is basically the same as his in-season one. He can only go full speed. He can't slow down and control the game. Always looking for that forward pass (that often ends in opponent's possession so we need to waste energy to get the ball back). There are just game situations when you need to take result/opponent into account and become a bit more conservative. And when leading with just a few minutes left against an even more tired opponent that's the moment to do that. Go dribble towards a corner flag, put the ball in the stands every 10 seconds, roll on the ground for half a minute. Just whatever. That's what all experienced winning teams are doing (you can either be that - a winning team or look good in a loss, so whatever you prefer). And most of them for prolonged period. I don't want to time waste for 20-30 minutes every game like Getafe. But for the last 2-3 minutes when leading I'll absolutely take it if the alternative is to concede a late goal because we can't defend (and we've seen more than enough evidence over the years, not just this season, a word defending is not in Barca players and coaches vocabulary).

And it's not like we've not been warned before, for example league game against Atletico at Montjuic when we were pushing for a winning goal and lost. Hopefully that won't come back to bite us and we'll finish the job in El Clasico on Sunday but if we'll somehow bottle and lose La Liga for a point that Atleti game will always be the one I will look at.
That’s true, I remember your postings and that’s the purest true. Nothing else could better be analyzed that this. Hope everybody see that. There is always a cause before an effect, physics law and you clearly detailed the cause. Excellent post.
 

jamrock

Senior Member
.
Winning 1 in 3 CLs for any set of players or systems is pretty brilliant, no? That's shit math honestly. Small numbers and all.

Nope

not when that one is a covid CL, where you didn't have to face an away leg.

Let's see him do it in CL proper.

He's played K.O football 2/3 times between the CL and world cup, with no mitigating factors and loss them all.

Because he doesn't understand you don't need to win games by 18 goals.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Inter are not a brilliant defensive team. I will die on that hill.

Run of the mill good allrounder side.

Our luck is nobody is very good defensively. Not as bad as us obviously, but not very strong either.

So... our offense is gonna continue to score many goals and generate many chances.
 

jamrock

Senior Member
In the summer we need to focus fundamentally on the defense. Like really really improve it.

We need GK, fullback, central defender, and just one good LW that can contribute from the bench.

Good luck with that lol.

We were better in game management away from a CL final.

Good luck telling and SD for any club in Europe, you need 5 signings after than.

Except two, three if we are lucky.

A clutch goalkeeper would be nice, but that's not happening.
 

ajnotkeith

Senior Member
Yeah, that's a media created myth. They are not AM 2014.
I don't think anyone really describes them like this unless they haven't watched them, its true their defense is very good but no more so than you'd expect from a top team.

They are very balanced and flexible, jack of all trades team.
 

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