8 - Pedri

Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
I
Temptation said:
I'd have loved to see Klopp's Prime Liverpool play against Pep's Prime Barca.

We were excellent defensively, pressed like animals and had a lot of pace.

And before people talk about the difference in quality in the midfields, remember that Klopp is the only manager who has consistently gone toe to toe with Pep playing attacking Football and has a better H2H record despite having weaker squads than Pep. Pep has always said Klopp is his toughest opponent ever.

Klopp's counterpressing system makes up for the lack of world class talent in his midfielders except Prime Fabinho, Coutinho, Thiago, Gundogan (all of which were easily world class talents at their best).

We rarely lost games in that period. @Birdy what do you think?
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It doesn't matter that Liverpool's three weren't world-class individually other than Fabinho (not that Henderson and Wijnaldum weren't good players, because they were), because they were extremely effective as a unit and did what Klopp needed of them, precisely.

That's the difference between rating players on paper and them being perfect for the system.
 
T

Temptation

Well-known member
serghei said:
No doubt. Thinking you can challenge them in midfield of the park was Ferguson's flaw in both CL finals. Even his great 2009 side had no chance. Was closest thing to trying to dominate peak Nadal on clay at RG. Just ain't happening. Passage of time doesn't change it.
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Ferguson was a weak/subpar tactician. His strength was man management and building squads.

Mourinho was a far superior tactician. People who think it's just as simple as parking the bus and playing on the break are clueless. It's a lot more intricate and nuanced than that.

There's a difference between philosophy and tactical acumen. You can play beautiful Football and be an average tactician like Wenger. You can play turgid Football but be an impeccable tactician like Allegri.

Pep would destroy Ferguson tactically in big games. Pep is a tactical genius. Ferguson is nowhere near as a pure tactician.
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
Yeah, Ferguson isn't a student of the game. He talked a lot about signing some players without watching the leagues they played in. He doesn't come across as a deep thinker, and never has (on football or anything else). He's just a simple, normal man.

He's a typical old-school Glaswegian guy with a very strong (i'd say bullying) personality who can get players (and referees) to do everything he wishes and fight tooth and nail for him. Plus he had an eye for a good player (he bought plenty of duds too but he knew a good player).

His United teams were in his image - simple, effective, strong in personality, but basic and not really anything that will pioneer a style or change the game.

On Redcafe they try to make out he's a good tactician. But they are talking bollocks. They think he's God and can't stand any criticism of him.

His lack of tactical ability is why I can never rate him as the best ever manager or coach. He just doesn't understand the game as a game as much as Klopp, Pep, Jose, Cruyff, Michels etc. He understands how to spot a player, how to build a squad, how to get the best out of his personnel, how to motivate, as well as most. But when it comes to actual patterns of play, spotting things on the park, he lags behind a lot of coaches.
 
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T

Temptation

Well-known member
FWIW, Klopp isn't a master tactician like Mourinho or Guardiola either.

Klopp is only good/very good at it. Klopp is GOAT level in terms of coaching a press, improving players, physical fitness and motivating his team.

In a one off final, Guardiola (if you have the strongest team) and Mourinho (if you have a weaker team) are clear of Klopp.
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
Temptation said:
FWIW, Klopp isn't a master tactician like Mourinho or Guardiola either.

Klopp is only good/very good at it. Klopp is GOAT level in terms of coaching a press, improving players, physical fitness and motivating his team.

In a one off final, Guardiola (if you have the strongest team) and Mourinho (if you have a weaker team) are clear of Klopp.
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I agree, but still better than Ferguson, with the profile to justify inclusion, hence my naming him.

Sacchi was an excellent tactician and thinker.
 
Birdy

Birdy

Senior Member
Temptation said:
I'd have loved to see Klopp's Prime Liverpool play against Pep's Prime Barca.

We were excellent defensively, pressed like animals and had a lot of pace.

And before people talk about the difference in quality in the midfields, remember that Klopp is the only manager who has consistently gone toe to toe with Pep playing attacking Football and has a better H2H record despite having weaker squads than Pep. Pep has always said Klopp is his toughest opponent ever.

Klopp's counterpressing system makes up for the lack of world class talent in his midfielders except Prime Fabinho, Coutinho, Thiago, Gundogan (all of which were easily world class talents at their best).

We rarely lost games in that period. @Birdy what do you think?
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I have been ridiculed here for saying the obvious. That that Klopp team would pose great problems even to the greatest Barca ever

People can't think cross-historically. They can't grasp the fact that football evolves.
It is strange to them that an Aston Villa of 23-25 would easily beat the great Milan of 02-04 under Ancelotti.
For the obvious reasons that football is played at a x20 pace in all aspects nowadays compared to back then.
Click on YT and watch a whole game of that era and you will see why
 
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