21 - Frenkie de Jong

[Richard.H]

I really dont get what people expect him to do (as a CM/DM/ballplaying defender). As long as our attack is such an incoherent mess our midfield (or team) wont look good in big games. Its that simple.

I think the complaints people have about him are very legit and not an overreaction from the Clasico. He isn't that much better than 18 year old Pedri and near MLS age Busi. Like fergus said, he was signed to be the player that our midfield is built around. Essentially a Kroos/Modric type signing. The hype around him is very real too, with many pundits before his signing saying how great the barca mid would be with him.


A scenario to think about: If he gets injured right now, and one of our youngsters replaces him in the lineup: Let's say Ilaix Moriba. Do you think our team would look A LOT worse?

 

[Bobo32]

To me personally, because I've seen a lot of people say he's excellent and that we should be building the midfield around him that I'd expect him to be much more influential in grabbing the midfield by the scruff of the neck, the ability to pass between lines and switch play and dictate the tempo when necessary. I do like him but I never see more than a 6.5/10 most weeks, a reliable player with great stamina but lacks imagination in the pass, a jack of all trades if you will.

I see FDJ being labelled as world class, then i look at someone like Kimmich etc and just see a huge gap in the quality of their midfield play. If FDJ cost 30 million id be delighted with him but I just struggle to see the quality that others do.

He is very good, I still like the buy a lot. Today he made a few very good passes, and he has many qualities. He is one of the best players in europe, but he needs the right role and the right surroundings.

 

[mc_lovin]

I think the complaints people have about him are very legit and not an overreaction from the Clasico. He isn't that much better than 18 year old Pedri and near MLS age Busi. Like fergus said, he was signed to be the player that our midfield is built around. Essentially a Kroos/Modric type signing. The hype around him is very real too, with many pundits before his signing saying how great the barca mid would be with him.


A scenario to think about: If he gets injured right now, and one of our youngsters replaces him in the lineup: Let's say Ilaix Moriba. Do you think our team would look A LOT worse?

Another scenario to think about: if you put Kimmich/Modric/Kroos in our lineup instead of Frenkie do you think they would look better? Maybe insanely talented AMs like Iniesta could make a difference with virtually no decent runners upfront, but CMs/DMs? No way.

Edit: not sure what Bobo is on about either. Midfield was dominant enough today.

 

[Porque]

He is very good. But he is showing what he lacks against the top teams. Not entirely his fault as we ideally need a midfield who covers the offensive output of the midfield. Maybe it can be Pedri when he matures, but he is far from that right now- again against the Elite teams in club football.

 

[fergus90]

Kimmich created 10 chances from DM against PSG with Choupo-Moting up front. All in all I'm not terribly dissatisfied with him just think he's a steady 6.5/10 most weeks but lacks a bit of output.

 

[JamDav1982]

Kimmich created 10 chances from DM against PSG with Choupo-Moting up front. All in all I'm not terribly dissatisfied with him just think he's a steady 6.5/10 most weeks but lacks a bit of output.

Kimmich created most of those from set pieces as well and not quite a DM. He gets forward a lot.

 

[Dammie10]

Frenkie have to make a step in order to be worldclass. I?ve known him since Ajax youth because I?m Dutch. If I compare him to let?s say Modric then the difference is there. The Croatian has 5/6 options in his head to make the forward plays and chooses the best. Frenkie is limited in his solutions to do the same and if the 1 in head isn?t there to give he had to play back or to the side. His out of the box thinking is not good enough to constantly play forward balls in tight situations. The other thing what I don?t like is his rhythm. He needs to feel the flow of attacks in order to keep the danger there. He takes too much time when a fast play is necessary because otherwise the defenders are positioned again. That split second vision to dictate tempo and smell chances is weak. He takes 2/3 touches when not necessary. So many times he takes the tempo out of attacks and also does it with the National team. Can he learn those things or is that straight instinct which you?re born with? Time will tell. Hope he succeeds as my fellow countrymen

 

[fergus90]

Kimmich created most of those from set pieces as well and not quite a DM. He gets forward a lot.

That's true but Kimmich and Kroos have a much better passing range regardless of set pieces. The ability to switch play etc.

 

[fergus90]

Frenkie have to make a step in order to be worldclass. I?ve known him since Ajax youth because I?m Dutch. If I compare him to let?s say Modric then the difference is there. The Croatian has 5/6 options in his head to make the forward plays and chooses the best. Frenkie is limited in his solutions to do the same and if the 1 in head isn?t there to give he had to play back or to the side. His out of the box thinking is not good enough to constantly play forward balls in tight situations. The other thing what I don?t like is his rhythm. He needs to feel the flow of attacks in order to keep the danger there. He takes too much time when a fast play is necessary because otherwise the defenders are positioned again. That split second vision to dictate tempo and smell chances is weak. He takes 2/3 touches when not necessary. So many times he takes the tempo out of attacks and also does it with the National team. Can he learn those things or is that straight instinct which you?re born with? Time will tell. Hope he succeeds as my fellow countrymen

This is what i'm trying to get at. He lacks that instinct to me.

 

[JamDav1982]

That's true but Kimmich and Kroos have a much better passing range regardless of set pieces. The ability to switch play etc.

They do but are also very different players and something Barca lack is someone that can pass like that.

Kimmich would be best mid in europe though.

 

[Richard.H]

I am counting down to Haaland's signing so I can see FDJ turning into a 10/10 midfielder.

 

[Bobo32]

Frenkie have to make a step in order to be worldclass. I?ve known him since Ajax youth because I?m Dutch. If I compare him to let?s say Modric then the difference is there. The Croatian has 5/6 options in his head to make the forward plays and chooses the best. Frenkie is limited in his solutions to do the same and if the 1 in head isn?t there to give he had to play back or to the side. His out of the box thinking is not good enough to constantly play forward balls in tight situations. The other thing what I don?t like is his rhythm. He needs to feel the flow of attacks in order to keep the danger there. He takes too much time when a fast play is necessary because otherwise the defenders are positioned again. That split second vision to dictate tempo and smell chances is weak. He takes 2/3 touches when not necessary. So many times he takes the tempo out of attacks and also does it with the National team. Can he learn those things or is that straight instinct which you?re born with? Time will tell. Hope he succeeds as my fellow countrymen

I agree with this.
I also think he is a bit lazy in his positioning, on top of being a bit poor in this part of the play.
He doesn't feel the need to constantly correct his position, but stands and waits, and is too often seeking out the comfortable flank, or drops real deep to get the ball.

 

[Arnaez]

Don't think he can improve his vision. He should work on the defensive game to play a bit deeper and free up Pedri.

 

[JamDav1982]

Don't think he can improve his vision. He should work on the defensive game to play a bit deeper and free up Pedri.

FDJ is far better passes than Pedri in terms of range and making decisions early at this point.

Pedri relies more on off the cuff moments when bit of chaos. Not sure freeing Pedri up is the answer to much at moment.

Definitely need a better balance in midfield though.

 

[khaled_a_d]

He is our 2nd best player this season for me, no doubt about it for me.
But he isn't a player who control midfield, never been his strength and most likely will never be, he is box to box midfielder rather a true CM.
He does his thing vertically, will run a lot, will defend greatly, will score goals, but he will never control the tempo.

This is why I loved him as Libro and really didn't like moving him from there, he is the core of the 352/343 we have.