13 - Joan García

[delancey]

Tbf concerns regarding defense, Flick not willing or being able to adapt his game, not buying quality CB or striker were all raised since the tail end of last season. First three games only cemented those worries.

I am glad he is sticking to his principles. flick is the reason why I support Barca and not some Mourinho like club. Attack 100 %. We shouldn’t have gotten rid of any defenders during this transfer window. I agree, but that is not down to tactics but rather on Tebas’ FFP.

No need to draw major conclusions after just a few games. A bit too reactionary.

 

[Maradona37]

I am glad he is sticking to his principles. flick is the reason why I support Barca and not some Mourinho like club. Attack 100 %. We shouldn’t have gotten rid of any defenders during this transfer window. I agree, but that is not down to tactics but rather on Tebas’ FFP.

No need to draw major conclusions after just a few games. A bit too reactionary.

Just jumping in.

Yeah Barca have always played the best football.

As for second paragraph - I agree it can be a reactionary thing. But that isn't what malvolio is saying. He is saying there were clear systemic or personnel issues last season too (as identified by him, myself, Messigician and myriad other posters) and those have continued into this season - the pattern in there.

If this were something new that cropped up this season, then that's fair enough. But it's not - these flaws are a feature of Flick's tenure. Personally I believe his gung ho style of football won't be sustainable without him reining it in a bit (though it's great to watch, you're correct) but plenty people disagree with that, too.

I don't see the need to make things harder than they are, like he did against Inter (still attacking in last minutes of stoppage time, though that's also on Lamine's inexperience) and did in several other games last season where he could have saw the game out but still treated it like a basketball match.

 

[delancey]

Just jumping in.

Yeah Barca have always played the best football.

As for second paragraph - I agree it can be a reactionary thing. But that isn't what malvolio is saying. He is saying there were clear systemic or personnel issues last season too (as identified by him, myself, Messigician and myriad other posters) and those have continued into this season - the pattern in there.

If this were something new that cropped up this season, then that's fair enough. But it's not - these flaws are a feature of Flick's tenure. Personally I believe his gung ho style of football won't be sustainable without him reining it in a bit (though it's great to watch, you're correct) but plenty people disagree with that, too.

I don't see the need to make things harder than they are, like he did against Inter (still attacking in last minutes of stoppage time, though that's also on Lamine's inexperience) and did in several other games last season where he could have saw the game out but still treated it like a basketball match.

The systemic issue which you are referencing is by design. It already existed last season, yet we were the best team in Spain and one of the best in Europe because of it. It is Flick’s way! We play the most entertaining football in the world at the expense of our defense. This is deliberate (under Flick).

I have always said this, and some disagree, but Id rather we play attacking football and lose than play defensive football and win. Our attacking brand of football is who we are, our identity, and it just so happens that right now, our attack is hyper aggressive and it is affecting our defense a bit too much. But it is so beautiful to watch… and I cannot complain for I was so depressed watching us under Mister and Xavi.


Two more points.

1. The chain of results which led us to the CL semi-final may not have happened if we had played more defensively. We will never know the answer, obviously, but it was Flick’s hyper attacking oriented system which got us to the semi-final. If a more pragmatic minded manager had been in charge, chances are that we had gotten eliminated earlier. Heck, under Xavi, with an almost identical squad, we weren’t even good enough for the EL.

2. It isn’t only systemic but also a result of FFP, which forced us to sell Martinez without a replacement mere weeks before the season start. How would Mourinho have reacted to that? Flick doubles down on our attack and doesn’t complain! Not a peep. And he’s doing all of this (all our success and titles) with La Masia kids and an old striker.

I love Flick. He’s the best thing that has happened to Barcelona since Pep! 😍

 

[Maradona37]

The systemic issue which you are referencing is by design. It already existed last season, yet we were the best team in Spain and one of the best in Europe because of it. It is Flick’s way! We play the most entertaining football in the world at the expense of our defense. This is deliberate (under Flick).

I have always said this, and some disagree, but Id rather we play attacking football and lose than play defensive football and win. Our attacking brand of football is who we are, our identity, and it just so happens that right now, our attack is hyper aggressive and it is affecting our defense a bit too much. But it is so beautiful to watch… and I cannot complain for I was so depressed watching us under Mister and Xavi.


Two more points.

1. The chain of results which led us to the CL semi-final may not have happened if we had played more defensively. We will never know the answer, obviously, but it was Flick’s hyper attacking oriented system which got us to the semi-final. If a more pragmatic minded manager had been in charge, chances are that we had gotten eliminated earlier. Heck, under Xavi, with an almost identical squad, we weren’t even good enough for the EL.

2. It isn’t only systemic but also a result of FFP, which forced us to sell Martinez without a replacement mere weeks before the season start. How would Mourinho have reacted to that? Flick doubles down on our attack and doesn’t complain! Not a peep. And he’s doing all of this (all our success and titles) with La Masia kids and an old striker.

I love Flick. He’s the best thing that has happened to Barcelona since Pep! 😍

Fair enough. Obviously I know it's by design, but some of the other stuff is food for thought for me. Good observation on the counterfactual claim that - mayeb - the attacking football got you further in the first place and more pragmatic football might have seen you eliminated sooner. That is a great point.

I would say Enrique is and was better than Flick, but you prefer Flick, which is just personal opinion on our sides.

Good post and response.

 

[Maradona37]

I have always said this, and some disagree, but Id rather we play attacking football and lose than play defensive football and win.

Also, since I didn't explicitly reference this. I am a purist and I agree. I would rather play like Pep in 2010 and lose narrowly, than play like a Mourinho park the bus side and win trophies. That is what I believe too. But when I talk about Barca needing to be pragmatic more, I am referring to the perspective of those who wanna see the club get back to winning the CL by whatever means necessary.

I am obviously not advocating for dogmeat football like Mourinho often plays - just a bit less naivety and more balance. He's quite extreme in his attacking principles, which is refreshing but worrying in equal measure.

 

[delancey]

Also, since I didn't explicitly reference this. I am a purist and I agree. I would rather play like Pep in 2010 and lose narrowly, than play like a Mourinho park the bus side and win trophies. That is what I believe too. But when I talk about Barca needing to be pragmatic more, I am referring to the perspective of those who wanna see the club get back to winning the CL by whatever means necessary.

I am obviously not advocating for dogmeat football like Mourinho often plays - just a bit less naivety and more balance. He's quite extreme in his attacking principles, which is refreshing but worrying in equal measure.

Isn’t it beautiful how the most attack oriented club hired one of the most gung-ho attack oriented managers with a squad consisting of La Masia kids, a few world class players, and a tractor in attack, yet it managed to win LL and almost conquered Europe? 😁

You may be right! Our style of play may very well do us in at the end of the season, in which case Flick’s job may be on the line. I hope not! I love watching us play, and whatever the score may be, I always feel confident that we can turn it around under Flick.

I like Enrique too. Always did. But he had Messi and Suarez. Flick has a squad which wasn’t even good enough for the EL under his predecessor.

 

[Maradona37]

Isn’t it beautiful how the most attack oriented club hired one of the most gung-ho attack oriented managers with a squad consisting of La Masia kids, a few world class players, and a tractor in attack, yet it managed to win LL and almost conquered Europe? 😁

You may be right! Our style of play may very well do us in at the end of the season, in which case Flick’s job may be on the line. I hope not! I love watching us play, and whatever the score may be, I always feel confident that we can turn it around under Flick.

I like Enrique too. Always did. But he had Messi and Suarez. Flick has a squad which wasn’t even good enough for the EL under his predecessor.

Fair enough. Let's hope Barca win the CL. It's been too long and the football Flick plays is deserving of that trophy.

 

[behindbrowneyes]

No need to make unnecessary comparisons. Only keepers we should compare Joan is the ones we have (had) in squad and in that case it is save to say that he is an improvement over last season.

If Joan improves on defending high balls in air he'll have a great skill set necessary to be a great keeper for this club.


Regarding the "sale" of Inigo due to FFP: doubt it had anything to do with FFP. It was purely a players wish after the offer he had received. Legitimate to take it as he hasn't had a career at top clubs. Also looks like there was a gentlemen agreement between Inigo and the club to let him go for free if such an offer arrives.

 

[RedxMAK]

The systemic issue which you are referencing is by design. It already existed last season, yet we were the best team in Spain and one of the best in Europe because of it. It is Flick’s way! We play the most entertaining football in the world at the expense of our defense. This is deliberate (under Flick).

I have always said this, and some disagree, but Id rather we play attacking football and lose than play defensive football and win. Our attacking brand of football is who we are, our identity, and it just so happens that right now, our attack is hyper aggressive and it is affecting our defense a bit too much. But it is so beautiful to watch… and I cannot complain for I was so depressed watching us under Mister and Xavi.


Two more points.

1. The chain of results which led us to the CL semi-final may not have happened if we had played more defensively. We will never know the answer, obviously, but it was Flick’s hyper attacking oriented system which got us to the semi-final. If a more pragmatic minded manager had been in charge, chances are that we had gotten eliminated earlier. Heck, under Xavi, with an almost identical squad, we weren’t even good enough for the EL.

2. It isn’t only systemic but also a result of FFP, which forced us to sell Martinez without a replacement mere weeks before the season start. How would Mourinho have reacted to that? Flick doubles down on our attack and doesn’t complain! Not a peep. And he’s doing all of this (all our success and titles) with La Masia kids and an old striker.

I love Flick. He’s the best thing that has happened to Barcelona since Pep! 😍

I agree with this and I resonate greatly with this paragraph. Something that makes me proud to be a Barcelona fan is the amazing football and the general ideology the club has. No club ever or has ever or will ever play as great as Barcelona did in its entire history and despite the oil clubs winning 2 trebles in 3 years it is mostly due to products of the Barcelona ideology in Pep and Enrique. I was too light on Xavi and I didn’t like how he got treated but it had to happen, as I look back at last season, I have to say that it was beautiful and it gets better as I remember it more. We really were blessed and I’m sure the last game will motivate us to return to that level as I think this is the start of something great and not a purple patch.

 

[RedxMAK]

Fair enough. Obviously I know it's by design, but some of the other stuff is food for thought for me. Good observation on the counterfactual claim that - mayeb - the attacking football got you further in the first place and more pragmatic football might have seen you eliminated sooner. That is a great point.

I would say Enrique is and was better than Flick, but you prefer Flick, which is just personal opinion on our sides.

Good post and response.

I disagree with you on that one.


I love and adore Luis Enrique, this guy was basically the heart of Barcelona between 1996 and 2004. His tenure there as a player was special and he had some amazing moments like his goals against Madrid in 97 and 99. As well as the UCL comeback against Panathinaikos in 2002 and what not. Anyways as a manager, he for the most part was a decent manager and he gave us a small renaissance between 2014 and 2017. BUT this does not stray from the fact he relied greatly on MSN and once they stopped tracking back and started having more bad days, the weak midfield and the average defence began getting more exposed. The 2016-17 season was a bad season by our extremely high standards, the team had an extremely underwhelming start to LaLiga on par with starts like that disastrous 2007-08 season. Although we did have a great patch of form in the second part of the season, we collapsed in Malaga and Deportivo. As 3 points separated us from what would’ve been a 3rd consecutive LaLiga title. The Champions League was even worse as we conceded 7 goals in our last 4 UCL away games and despite us producing the greatest comeback of all time we got pumped by Juventus 3-0 and their strong defence denied us from the semi final in the second leg in the Camp Nou. Due to his general reliance on MSN and the lack of identifying clear problems in midfield and defence, he underachieved greatly with the squad he had. And despite him winning the UCL last season due to a deflated Inter playing in the final, it shouldn’t be ignored that he played with nearly the same squad and managed to go 0-2 against Dortmund in 2 legs after needing a red card to qualify in the first place. Now I’m not trying to say he’s bad but Imo I think Flick is better as I think his effect on Barcelona is much greater than the effect Enrique gave in 2014 and the effect Enrique would’ve given if he was appointed instead. I love Enrique but he’s getting a tad bit overrated…

 

[jairzinho]

Yeah, over the top. This is his first season playing for a big club. Let's see how he does first.

Hardly over the top. Taking into account last season's form and into this season already he's made a case for being in top 6 or 10 atm.

 

[Maradona37]

I disagree with you on that one.


I love and adore Luis Enrique, this guy was basically the heart of Barcelona between 1996 and 2004. His tenure there as a player was special and he had some amazing moments like his goals against Madrid in 97 and 99. As well as the UCL comeback against Panathinaikos in 2002 and what not. Anyways as a manager, he for the most part was a decent manager and he gave us a small renaissance between 2014 and 2017. BUT this does not stray from the fact he relied greatly on MSN and once they stopped tracking back and started having more bad days, the weak midfield and the average defence began getting more exposed. The 2016-17 season was a bad season by our extremely high standards, the team had an extremely underwhelming start to LaLiga on par with starts like that disastrous 2007-08 season. Although we did have a great patch of form in the second part of the season, we collapsed in Malaga and Deportivo. As 3 points separated us from what would’ve been a 3rd consecutive LaLiga title. The Champions League was even worse as we conceded 7 goals in our last 4 UCL away games and despite us producing the greatest comeback of all time we got pumped by Juventus 3-0 and their strong defence denied us from the semi final in the second leg in the Camp Nou. Due to his general reliance on MSN and the lack of identifying clear problems in midfield and defence, he underachieved greatly with the squad he had. And despite him winning the UCL last season due to a deflated Inter playing in the final, it shouldn’t be ignored that he played with nearly the same squad and managed to go 0-2 against Dortmund in 2 legs after needing a red card to qualify in the first place. Now I’m not trying to say he’s bad but Imo I think Flick is better as I think his effect on Barcelona is much greater than the effect Enrique gave in 2014 and the effect Enrique would’ve given if he was appointed instead. I love Enrique but he’s getting a tad bit overrated…

Fair enough..well backed up post

 

[serghei]

Lucho football is more organized but as a cost, more down to individual quality of the players as the system is more rigid and positional. Not sure it will create as many chances as Flick ball, but we will get more stability in defense with Luis Enrique moving from Flick. That is the tradeoff we must accept as Flick's tenure runs its lenght. Lucho is more like Xavi than Flick. If we don't have a top squad expect more boring stuff offensively.

The PSG squad he is managing is better than Barca in most positions. The entire backline, Kvara, Dembele, and at least a midfielder out of Neves and Vitinha get in our first 11. That's 7 out of 10 probably. Only De Jong, Pedri, and Yamal are starting for PSG most likely. The transition to a more organized and possession based system hurts Raphinha as well compared to Kvara who has more dribbling ability.