Ousmane Dembélé

Andresito

Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
Samuel Umtiti: "I had to call Dembélé in the morning to see if he was awake, to make sure he knew training was in the morning. He didn't realize he was at Barcelona. He's a very good guy, but he didn't realize it. It's like he was going to play in the next town over. That's Ousmane."
 
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OVI9323

Senior Member
Andresito said:
Samuel Umtiti: "I had to call Dembélé in the morning to see if he was awake, to make sure he knew training was in the morning. He didn't realize he was at Barcelona. He's a very good guy, but he didn't realize it. It's like he was going to play in the next town over. That's Ousmane."
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This actually was a tribute to Dembele, there was 3 player who like Dembele and there goal was to use dark humour (no bad pun intended). So here Umtiti was totally joking and using this video where the goal was to make him look like a hater, even if we all know that it was true lol.
 
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FCBarca

FCBarca

Truth
feggydinho said:
So I would like to ask you the question you asked, what criteria is best for BPOTY?

This is cause even in Barca, Raphinha led in most stats (chances created, goals, assists). Yamal was the best in dribbles, so is that enough for him to win.

Also factor this, Pedri was voted best Barca player for last season, and Raphinha was voted La Liga player of last season or would you also query those votes since they don't have Yamal as the winner?
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BdO has inherent structural bias - using 'jouranalists' who vote on storylines rather than performance and this is influenced by social media hype, club influence/propaganda and even recency bias. I mean how can Vini be in any top ranking for BdO? It's madness. In principle, the concept of a BPOTY award is subjective - the objective criteria you can debate but they aren't really defined in any way. Plus, how can you objectively compare different positions on the pitch? Sofascores?

There's the eye test and here because it lacks an objective marker to rank any one player much less differentiate one from another you rely on the experts - journalists are not experts, they're selling stories. Former footballers? A committee/panel of veterans like the Academy for the Oscars? That's opaque and doesn't really preclude bias from entering into it. Fan ratings? This is tribal too

I think the only just solution would be a weighted system using a combination of all those and built on objective variables. But this would need to be transparent too, I do believe BdO will end up like these manufactured awards CR is winning each year now in the gulf world

Of course this is a plague in every sector now, objectivity making way for marketing power

I liken it to this - if you buy something from a marketplace online you read the reviews. A high star rating implies its going to be a purchase to meet your needs but everyone's needs/tastes are different and few are universally aligned. Even then, there's reviewer bias - you have to wade through the ridiculous reviews (good/bad) that have little to do with what they are rating but annoyed/thrilled by some inconsequential or irrelevant details. This happens with these voters in BdO too, they rank ridiculously at times. So if you see the high rating, it may just be the accumulation of idiotic reviews rather than a true assessment of whether it delivers on being the best. The devil is in the details
 
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F

feggydinho

Senior Member
FCBarca said:
BdO has inherent structural bias - using 'jouranalists' who vote on storylines rather than performance and this is influenced by social media hype, club influence/propaganda and even recency bias. I mean how can Vini be in any top ranking for BdO? It's madness. In principle, the concept of a BPOTY award is subjective - the objective criteria you can debate but they aren't really defined in any way. Plus, how can you objectively compare different positions on the pitch? Sofascores?

There's the eye test and here because it lacks an objective marker to rank any one player much less differentiate one from another you rely on the experts - journalists are not experts, they're selling stories. Former footballers? A committee/panel of veterans like the Academy for the Oscars? That's opaque and doesn't really preclude bias from entering into it. Fan ratings? This is tribal too

I think the only just solution would be a weighted system using a combination of all those and built on objective variables. But this would need to be transparent too, I do believe BdO will end up like these manufactured awards CR is winning each year now in the gulf world

Of course this is a plague in every sector now, objectivity making way for marketing power

I liken it to this - if you buy something from a marketplace online you read the reviews. A high star rating implies its going to be a purchase to meet your needs but everyone's needs/tastes are different and few are universally aligned. Even then, there's reviewer bias - you have to wade through the ridiculous reviews (good/bad) that have little to do with what they are rating but annoyed/thrilled by some inconsequential or irrelevant details. This happens with these voters in BdO too, they rank ridiculously at times. So if you see the high rating, it may just be the accumulation of idiotic reviews rather than a true assessment of whether it delivers on being the best. The devil is in the details
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I understand, but for this year, many people are saying the number 1 spot for Dembele is deserved, but they have issues with other positions.

You even see Messi's congratulatory post to Dembele, where he says that he (Dembele) deserves it, which a lot of people actually agree with; I guess we may see how captains and coaches voted later, but I think many voted for Dembele cause his season was too good for him not to win
 
FCBarca

FCBarca

Truth
feggydinho said:
I understand, but for this year, many people are saying the number 1 spot for Dembele is deserved, but they have issues with other positions.

You even see Messi's congratulatory post to Dembele, where he says that he (Dembele) deserves it, which a lot of people actually agree with; I guess we may see how captains and coaches voted later, but I think many voted for Dembele cause his season was too good for him not to win
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I am aware that currently it is what it is but that wasn’t the question, I merely pointed out its not an objective award but a marketing prize
 
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feggydinho

Senior Member
FCBarca said:
I am aware that currently it is what it is but that wasn’t the question, I merely pointed out its not an objective award but a marketing prize
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Okay, but I think objectivity would still have most votes putting Dembele as number 1 for the concluded season if we look at the 3 criteria they used.

- Individual Performances (Dembele is high up there and very influencial for PSG)
- Team Performances and Achievements (He's still up there)
- Class and Fair Play (He's very still up there)

So it was just a great season for him
 
FCBarca

FCBarca

Truth
feggydinho said:
Okay, but I think objectivity would still have most votes putting Dembele as number 1 for the concluded season if we look at the 3 criteria they used.

- Individual Performances (Dembele is high up there and very influencial for PSG)
- Team Performances and Achievements (He's still up there)
- Class and Fair Play (He's very still up there)

So it was just a great season for him
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You should read up on the details of those listed BdO criteria - Dembele would not be the highest rated objectively for any of those 3

Individually, Lamine trumps in most objective criteria metrics. Team wise he had one less trophy for club, but one more for NT. Then to speak nothing of the biggest factor which is subjective and that is in decisive performances - no one was more decisive than Lamine, no one
 
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feggydinho

Senior Member
FCBarca said:
You should read up on the details of those listed BdO criteria - Dembele would not be the highest rated objectively for any of those 3

Individually, Lamine trumps in most objective criteria metrics. Team wise he had one less trophy for club, but one more for NT. Then to speak nothing of the biggest factor which is subjective and that is in decisive performances - no one was more decisive than Lamine, no one
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What are the key objective criteria metrics that Yamal trumps in Individually? Note that the first criterion is (Individual performances, decisive and impressive character). Let's take UEFA competitions as a sample and look at their run from the quarters upwards

Dembele assisted in the UEFA Super Cup finals, assisted twice against Inter in UEFA finals, had a goal and assist against Arsenal in semi-finals, had 2 assists against Aston Villa in quarter finals.

Yamal had one assist against Inter in UEFA semis, one goal against Dortmund in the quarter finals.

If you're objective, how was Yamal more decisive individually with the stats above last season?
 
Birdy

Birdy

Senior Member
Of course the '1 trophy' Dembele had over Lamine was the most decisive for these awards.
Have not people learnt yet?

Let alone that it's ridiculous to try to discredit Dembele's importance for PSG's CL run.
He was the main cog upfront as a free roaming false 9. Created all the spaces for the others.
If you can't see that, I can't help you
 
draconifire

draconifire

NTC with a Positive attitude
draconifire said:
Decades of dominance still loading...........
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ALWAYS BELIEVED IN HIM.
giphy.gif
 
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feggydinho

Senior Member
vegitot said:
Has @feggydinho ever posted anything outside of Dembele thread?

Dembele deserves fully but saying Yamal isn't decisive because of not many goals is just insane.

Like saying Lampard was more decisive than Ronaldinho in 2004/05 because he scored more goals.
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If you followed the discussions between me and @FCBarca , you'll see that it is more of an objective comparison between Yamal and Dembele's decisiveness for last season, clearly not saying that Yamal isn't decisive.

I used the UCL quarters journey upwards for both players as a sample (since they're tough competitions), and I believe most people would evaluate decisiveness as playing a role in your team winning the games and moving forward, and Dembele clearly played a major role last season, from what I shared.
 
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vegitot

Senior Member
feggydinho said:
If you followed the discussions between me and @FCBarca , you'll see that it is more of an objective comparison between Yamal and Dembele's decisiveness for last season, clearly not saying that Yamal isn't decisive.

I used the UCL quarters journey upwards for both players as a sample (since they're tough competitions), and I believe most people would evaluate decisiveness as playing a role in your team winning the games and moving forward, and Dembele clearly played a major role last season, from what I shared.
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Dembele played a major role for Qsg in UCL, true. So did Yamal even though Barca lost to Inter (not his fault).

Can you say Yamal performances across two legs vs Inter are inferior to any of Dembele's performance?

And what about their domestic leagues? Barca competed against Real for all 3 tittles (super cup also). What was QSG opponent for their domestic? Brest? Nante? I'm sure Yamal's show in 4-3 win over Real is just greater than any thing in Ligue 1 from Dembele.

Sure Dembele deserves his prize but Yamal isn't any inferior individually. In fact he is better. But team's success also plays huge part.
 
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