Hans-Dieter Flick

[serghei]

Those variantions are mostly lacking in our game. We will trigger heavy advanced press, plant the backline high no matter if the quality of the player being pressed, no matter if he has passing options or not, and so on.

 

[Loki]

Backline at halfway line is tremendously stupid idea. Gives any decent player so many options for a pass that he has to fail the pass in an absurd way by overhitting it by a mile so Garcia can come out in time. You don't have to be Xavi, Kroos, Modric to play these passes to put a teammate 1 vs 1. We made this Vanaken guy from Brugges look like an all time great playmaker lol.

How often people need to repeat themselves, that it's not about the tactic but about the players executing it.

Strangly that's exactly what Bayern did successfully in Paris (until the red card obviously). What happened here, Paris doesn't know how to play against a defensive-line standing in the midfield? They have worse players than Brugge to send their forwards into 1vs1 situations? Why didn't they score againt Bayern's high-line?

It just proves, that this system can always be successful, as long as the requirements for it are met. Opponents adapting, gives away many options for 1vs1, it's all bullshit. It's either the requirements are met or not. Players are capable and believe in the system or not. I translated a good post on the last site on that topic

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1986462813540306984

 

[serghei]

How often people need to repeat themselves, that it's not about the tactic but about the players executing it.

Strangly that's exactly what Bayern did successfully in Paris (until the red card obviously). What happened here, Paris doesn't know how to play against a defensive-line standing in the midfield? They have worse players than Brugge to send their forwards into 1vs1 situations?

It just proves, that this system can always be successful, as long as the requirements for it are met. Opponents adapting, gives away many options for 1vs1, it's all bullshit. It's either the requirements are met or not. I translated a good post on the last site on that topic

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1986462813540306984

You watched Gnabry there? And Diaz? Do you see Rashford, Olmo, Lamine doing this? What are we talking about?

Tactics are also about figuring the best way to play with what you have. Not imagine some ideal play style in your head that can't be executed with the players you have and then giving speeches about what you need to do but don't.

Of course his tactics can work better on some ideal situation. We're not talking about Flick being a bum here.

 

[Loki]

You watched Gnabry there? And Diaz? Do you see Rashford and Lamine doing this? What are we talking about?

We're talking about you complaining since days, that the system is shit and I try to tell you, it's not the system, but the players not meeting the requirement currently. Your question here is correct to ask if we can do this pressing with Rashford. Lamine showed last season, he's capable to play in that system. But most of your posts to this topic are attacking the tactic in general and that's bullshit.

That's what you wrote:

His system is not sustainable. What he wants is unrealistic and unpractical.

And I just showed you Bayern dominated the current treble winner in their own stadium with this tactic. Not to mention we dominated all opponents last season playing exactly that with nearly the same players.

 

[serghei]

We're talking about you complaining since days, that the system is shit and I try to tell you, it's not the system, but the players not meeting the requirement currently. Your question here is correct to ask if we can do this pressing with Rashford and Lamine. But most of your posts to this topic attacking the tactic in general and that's bullshit.

That's what you wrote:



And I just showed you Bayern dominated the current treble winner in their own stadium with this tactic.

What you say is not logical and not how tactics work. Tactics are about figuring the best way to play with the players you have, vs the opponent you play against.

I see tactics - squad interdependent. You think tactics are good or bad on some idyllic plan and push the blames on the players. You want Yamal sold and replaced with a hard worker?

There's players and players for different plans. Yamal won't be able to press like that but can do things other players can't do in other setups. And it's a coaching matter to find a platform to use the players we have, not the players we don't.

 

[Loki]

Yamal won't be able to press like that

Do you have dementia? Lamine played in that system last season where we've won the domestic treble and were 2 minutes away from the CL final. And he was arguably the best player in the world. You're arguing against facts here, which tells me you're talking out of your ass.

 

[serghei]

Do you have dementia? Lamine played in that system last season where we've won the domestic treble and were 2 minutes away from the CL final. And he was arguably the best player in the world. You're arguing against facts here, which tells me you're talking out of your ass.

I just addressed this in a different post. 2 minutes away from a CL final means little. You just conceded 7 goals vs an Inter who weren't able to win anything in Italy. CL season from last year is not as impressive as you think.

We should have been favorites vs Benfica and last season Dortmund in CL knockouts. These two lost the title vs Sporting and Napoli. There were bad signs before Inter in that horrible Dortmund game in Germany where we were pure trash and could have shipped in more than 4 easily. We should have been favorites vs Inter and we just got beaten by a team that is inferior to us. I don't see the big feat last season in CL. If we would've been paired with Liverpool instead of Benfica, it's over for us in Last 16, not in semis.

Last season was a great start, not some mount Everest achievement as you imply. Something to build on and attack this season with improvements to the issues we had last year. Instead of improvements, and building on that, we are worse in every facet.

 

[serghei]

The only reason why Flick is not under direct sacking pressure is because the squad is limited and the financial situation is what we know it is. If we factor in that, as we should, then even if he has a terrible season and we win nothing and compete for little important, he will get another season still to try to fix things. Provided he doesn't implode and loses his shite like Xavi did. If nothing changes in the medium term, and we still have a defense that is the joke of Europe... we will move on from Flick, and we will remain with the positive impression of his one top season and that's it. No harm done in the bigger picture.

 

[ZenI]

Eric doesn't have to worry about any other player as he has no opponent to mark in his area. He has one referrence point, the player he looks at, so it is far easier for him to focus on the one referrence point and trigger the offside line quicker. If you look at Araujo, you will see he is involved in a duel with the striker. It is tremendously hard to watch multiple players at the same time, almost impossible.

This is just stupid defending not just individually, but as a template also. They catch us 2 vs 1 because there is no press on the fullback. This happens time and time again. If the forwards are not able to press non stop for 90 mins, there is nothing in place to ensure we keep a good structure. Flick ball is mostly press, nothing else.

If you follow Flick-ball principles, and you really want to find the main player responsible for this goal, that's Rashford. He let the opposing fullback free on the ball with no pressure applied whatsoever. Now, if you arrive at the conclusion that your forwards aren't capable physically and mentally to press all the time, the responsibility of taking that into consideration and fix the defensive issues is on Flick. He does not do that. All he says is how we should play with more intensity.

OK, we know what we should do. How about what we need to do to fix the situations that are caused when what we should do isn't being done?

Indeed, it was Rashford and that's why I'm pissed of he doesn't anticipate and position himself and than press - light fucking jog from him after usually him loosing the ball. Our opponents only train one fucking thing, how to mess up our offside "trap"... sit back, wait until Rashy, Casado, Fermin, Olmo, Kounde or Balde lose the ball - keep on eye on the "last" Barca player while countering = profit.

 

[M3ls]

x— But Brugge had some good moments, right? You said it would be tough, but in my opinion, today they had some really solid stretches.


Henri: “Yes, it depends on how you look at it. If you’re a Brugge fan – your team scored three goals against Barcelona, and they could have scored even more. Barca could have scored as well, but I have to point out that they constantly allow players to get away and face the goalkeeper one-on-one.”


— But remember, you showed clips after El Clásico last year where Mbappé chose the wrong moment to make a run? And if you look at Brugge today – they exploited that from the very start.


Henry: “But if you haven’t done your homework, haven’t figured out that Barcelona plays a high line, and don’t make late runs – remember how Borussia Dortmund did it against them last year. Late runs – and every time you can get to the goal. Why put yourself in a situation where you create problems for yourself? No disrespect to Brugge or other teams – but you have to defend not only the ball, but your own goal.


You can’t just defend the ball when there’s no pressure on it, letting players run left and right – and in the end, they keep creating chances. That’s not what you need. You have to eliminate mistakes, not create them yourself.”


Henry: “We’ve seen this many times. It seems like it was last year, in the match against Bayern.


Remember we talked about it a few days ago, we showed Kane’s goal, where he broke the offside line while staying on it the whole time, because they knew they were playing against a high line.


Even though they [Barca] won 4-1, I think I said last year that this line is suspicious. They need to fix this because in Europe, they won’t win like that.”


“We all know what happened: the match against Benfica, the match against Inter, the number of goals conceded, the number of shots conceded, the number of one-on-ones the goalkeeper has to save or concede.


And a year later, the situation is the same.”


“This is just not normal. There won’t be that many wins, especially in European competitions.”

 

[M3ls]

You’re reasoning as if our terrible defense is a phenomenon of this season. Last season, we ran our asses off, but opponents were still creating tons of chances at our goal.
Let me remind you – Inter scored 8!!!! goals. Inter! Borussia scored 4 and outperformed us in xG. Benfica also created a lot of chances at our goal.

 

[serghei]

Indeed, it was Rashford and that's why I'm pissed of he doesn't anticipate and position himself and than press - light fucking jog from him after usually him loosing the ball. Our opponents only train one fucking thing, how to mess up our offside "trap"... sit back, wait until Rashy, Casado, Fermin, Olmo, Kounde or Balde lose the ball - keep on eye on the "last" Barca player while countering = profit.

Sure, but you can't go from Rashford not pressing well up top to conceding 1 vs 1s at the back consistently. What about what happens in between? An initial mistake doesn't have to trigger a cascade of other errors. The position after Rashford doesn't press well is more than manageable, there is no superiority for Brugges. After Rashford doesn't press well and you get breached, you have to adjust to a different defending setup.

 

[jairzinho]

He has said repeatedly he does not consider changing his approach so we could be in for another wild season of suicide ball with high scoring games. The problem is teams have figured out how to beat the line.

 

[serghei]

How often people need to repeat themselves, that it's not about the tactic but about the players executing it.

Strangly that's exactly what Bayern did successfully in Paris (until the red card obviously). What happened here, Paris doesn't know how to play against a defensive-line standing in the midfield? They have worse players than Brugge to send their forwards into 1vs1 situations? Why didn't they score againt Bayern's high-line?

It just proves, that this system can always be successful, as long as the requirements for it are met. Opponents adapting, gives away many options for 1vs1, it's all bullshit. It's either the requirements are met or not. Players are capable and believe in the system or not. I translated a good post on the last site on that topic

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1986462813540306984

Btw, I looked at the full sequence, not just the bit you present here to say it's exactly the same as our pressing under Flick.

Here is the full sequence.

1. Marquinhos on the ball, passes it to the keeper. Probably to try to lure PSG into the type of pressing Barca did, make them expand.

2. Keeper has the ball. Note several things.
a) Kane keeps position and he is not interested to press Chevalier. Bayern not interested in pressing here. If he presses Chevalier here he simply passes to one of the open teammates.
b) By not pressing the keeper and the centerbacks here, Kane helps form a 3 vs 2 in the middle of the pitch.

If you follow Barca match vs PSG we had several instances where we mindlessly pressed the keeper and the CBs. Nothing lke that here.

3. This is actually the negative pass by PSG that triggers the aggressive man to man press. It's a pass that puts Marquinhos in a bad position by Vitinha, and from this moment it becomes very difficult for PSG to play through the press. After this moment you see full press from the entire Bayern team.

But the key difference is the aggressive press doesn't start by default, but based on clear triggers. This is a full 20 seconds of possession for PSG and Bayern initially don't press at all, then press lightly only key players from PSG, and only when they can make the biggest damage with lowest risk they go for aggressive pressing.

4. At this point PSG cornered themselves and can only play long ball. Marquinhos plays a poor pass to Hakimi and Bayern's press is deemed a success. Notice the position of Luiz. He's their LW.

So, already several important differences. Keeper is rarely pressed. Pressing doesn't get triggered by default. It's conditional and situational. Pressing doesn't go crazy mode form the start, but after PSG players dwell on the ball and play several back passes. Only then full aggressive man to man pressing is triggered, when the risk is minimal as PSG lost any good option of progression on the ball.

 

[serghei]

Comparing that with our amateurish Rambo style pressing where we press the fucking keeper. What are we worried about when the keeper has the ball? Why would you compromise your shape to press the keeper? It's completely retarded. Nothing like Bayern at all. Do you see Kane there running like a mad man to press everything that moves? No, he is tasked with more important duties. He is strategic, tactical, does not waste his energy on mindless running.

No wonder Ferran's legs were gone by min 70. The amount of useless pressing he engaged in was absurd.