Hans-Dieter Flick

[JamDav1982]

The most light midfield Pep played at City is when he had three typical wingers in the squad in Mahrez, Sterling, and Sane. And it was still a 3 man midfield. Sterling, Mahrez, Sane, Aguero rarely played at the same time, and certainly not vs any serious opposition.

It was a double pivot when got best out of Rodri and won CL etc.

IT was double pivot which allowed Rodri more freedom to get forward and help towards balondor for both club and country.

Who claimed City played with four midfielders?

That just more you not having clue how City played.

 

[serghei]

It was a double pivot.

Who claimed City played with four midfielders?

That just more you not having clue how City played.

You just implied it. Said Stones would move up in midfield. But then you already had Gundogan there, and Rodri. And KDB played often. So probably he was there also. That's 4 midfielders.

And the two wingers were Bernardo + Grealish, forgot about him. Don't know if you noticed, but Griealish didn't really play like a traditional winger at City. He scored 5 goals in 50 matches in 2022-23. His game was exactly tailored on ball retention and quick circulation. Benefiting midfielders even more.

 

[JamDav1982]

You just implied it. Stones moved in midfield. But then you already had Gundogan there, and Rodri. And KDB played often. So probably he was there also. That's 4 midfielders, plus Bernardo most likely.

AND Grealish, forgot about him. Don't know if you noticed, but Griealish didn't really play like a traditional winger at City. He scored 5 goals in 50 matches in 2022-23.

No.. you just have no idea how City played and couldnt understand what being told.

'You implied it' = I was wrong.

Stones was used by Pep to step into midfield and add numbers when one of Gundo/Rodri moved forward and maintain that shape.

Grealish played as a wide player to hold ball and take it up the park.

All been long discussed.

 

[Nello]

Why are people discussing our double pivot when it's literally one of our strongest parts of our team? Lamine, Rapha, Frenkie and Pedri are literally the only top players delivering in the team.
It's pretty clear as both Jamdav and Khaled are pointing out, that the lack of quality from others players, such as Kounde, Ferran, Fermin etc are creating more turnovers, and shitty situations during buildup that FDJ and Pedri need to make up for.

 

[serghei]

Yes, but Gundo and Rodri moving forward doesn't change that both them and KDB are central midfielders.

This is irrelevant. Xavi moved up a lot often and Pique would push up. So what?

 

[JamDav1982]

Why are people discussing our double pivot when it's literally one of our strongest parts of our team? Lamine, Rapha, Frenkie and Pedri are literally the only top players delivering in the team.
It's pretty clear as both Jamdav and Khaled are pointing out, that the lack of quality from others players, such as Kounde, Ferran, Fermin etc are creating more turnovers, and shitty situations during buildup that FDJ and Pedri need to make up for.

Because they scream 'play like PSG'.

Also they are Xavi fan boys who made every excuse under sun for him and really thats at the heart of it.

'Flick bad'.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yes, but Gundo and Rodri moving forward doesn't change that both them and KDB are central midfielders.

This is irrelevant. Xavi moved up a lot often and Pique would push up. So what?

They played in a double pivot and not both would move forward.... like at Barca.

The relevance of Stones moving up is to try and educate you how City operated that double pivot.

Still dont get it though as usual.

KDB was clearly the AM that season of the three and played off Haaland a lot more with freedom to go find ball.

 

[serghei]

Olmo's heat map makes it pretty clear. This is a useless conversation. Olmo plays as almost 2nd striker, much like Muller did in 2020. This is Flick's system, for better or worse, underpowered midfield, sacrificing control for one extra attacker to use in his pressing oriented approach.

 

[jamrock]

They are pointing out nonsense the team created enough with those exact players last season, actual for a few months it has a player from the 3rd division that played out his skin.

The issues isn't de jong & pedri, the issue is system that breaks too easily when it bends

 

[JamDav1982]

Olmo's heat map makes it pretty clear. This is a useless conversation. Olmo plays as almost 2nd striker, much like Muller did in 2020. This is Flick's system, for better or worse, underpowered midfield, sacrificing control for one extra attacker to use in his pressing oriented approach.

Olmos heat map makes what 'clear'?

 

[jamrock]

And just to be clear it broke easily last season as well, we just created enough changes to make up for it, but when that isn't working.

We make sevilla beta, look like Sevilla prime

 

[JamDav1982]

And just to be clear it broke easily last season as well, we just created enough changes to make up for it, but when that isn't working.

We make sevilla beta, look like Sevilla prime

Haha no.. it impacts both sides of ball.

The double pivot allows for more attacking players for good and bad.

 

[Nello]

Also it was'nt as if we lost to RM due to lack of control in midfield. We have seen plenty of times that FDJ and Pedri can dominate whatever 2,3 or even 4 man midfield that they decide to field.
Issue is when our backline can't play out of pressure, our forwards and 10 are gassed and have no hold up play whatsoever, and we constantly create turnovers due to shitty touches and passes.
Rasyh was one of our better forwards and there was a 10min spell in the second half where the guy lost the ball 3 consecutive times in build up due to bad control. Fermin, besides his goal, was quite bad aswell. Lamine injured.
No need to comment on Ferran's contribution hopefully. Szczesny levels below Garcia on ball.

 

[serghei]

I don't have an issue with it that much. The main reason why we scored 102 goals last season in the league only, more than any Pep side ever I think, is because Flick is not as focused on controlling the midfield.

But... if the press is anything else than top notch (at least for La Liga standards)... it all goes to shite, because the midfield is too thin. Once the first wave of pressing is breached, it's a mountain to climb for Pedri and De Jong. And the lack of control in midfield is exposed very badly.

 

[jamrock]

Also it was'nt as if we lost to RM due to lack of control in midfield. We have seen plenty of times that FDJ and Pedri can dominate whatever 2,3 or even 4 man midfield that they decide to field.
Issue is when our backline can't play out of pressure, our forwards and 10 are gassed and have no hold up play whatsoever, and we constantly create turnovers due to shitty touches and passes.
Rasyh was one of our better forwards and there was a 10min spell in the second half where the guy lost the ball 3 consecutive times in build up due to bad control. Fermin, besides his goal, was quite bad aswell. Lamine injured.
No need to comment on Ferran's contribution hopefully. Szczesny levels below Garcia on ball.

We were good for about 15-20 minutes, apart from that Madrid were playing the game exactly how they wanted

Pedri & de jong didn't dominate a thing, DA FUQ.

When yamal moved central we started to create again that's how little creativity they added to the game