Nations League 24/25

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Temptation

Well-known member
All I'm saying is 3 months back nobody rated Vitinha higher than Wirtz.

The hype is really recent.

People have rated Pedri, Wirtz, Musiala, Bellingham ever since they broke through.

Just because PSG won the CL doesn't make Vitinha better than Wirtz. Time will tell. Let's see how Wirtz does in the PL.

People forget that Vitinha miserably flopped at Wolves. People are rating him too highly too soon just because they like his profile and style of play. People made the same mistake with Phil "Stockport Iniesta" Foden. :lol:

I told JamDav that he was overrating Foden but he wouldn't believe me.

Don't rate the profile. Rate the actual player.
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
I think you are being harsh. I don't follow football as closely as I used to, but I have heard a fair bit of Vitinha rating since before this season. Yes it has ramped up a bit now but that is natural as a player showcases his ability on the biggest stage.

I definitely prefer him to Bellingham, but that's because he is more my type of player. Others might like Bellingham's profile or style more.

I still think Pedri is more CM than AM, by the way.
 
M

mc_lovin

Senior Member
Temptation said:
All I'm saying is 3 months back nobody rated Vitinha higher than Wirtz.

The hype is really recent.

People have rated Pedri, Wirtz, Musiala, Bellingham ever since they broke through.

Just because PSG won the CL doesn't make Vitinha better than Wirtz. Time will tell. Let's see how Wirtz does in the PL.

People forget that Vitinha miserably flopped at Wolves. People are rating him too highly too soon just because they like his profile and style of play. People made the same mistake with Phil "Stockport Iniesta" Foden. :lol:

Don't rate the profile. Rate the actual player.
Click to expand...
Not when the profile is replacable.
Temptation said:
All I'm saying is 3 months back nobody rated Vitinha higher than Wirtz.

The hype is really recent.

People have rated Pedri, Wirtz, Musiala, Bellingham ever since they broke through.

Just because PSG won the CL doesn't make Vitinha better than Wirtz. Time will tell. Let's see how Wirtz does in the PL.

People forget that Vitinha miserably flopped at Wolves. People are rating him too highly too soon just because they like his profile and style of play. People made the same mistake with Phil "Stockport Iniesta" Foden. :lol:

I told JamDav that he was overrating Foden but he wouldn't believe me.

Don't rate the profile. Rate the actual player.
Click to expand...
What has Foden to do with this? Slowish, Playmaking winger… thats usually the 2nd most overrated profile (next to #10).
 
T

Temptation

Well-known member
Pedri is a CM. He isn't an AM. I said this 2 years back.

I'm just listing the most highly rated young midfielders from the recent years.

KDB, Olmo, Wirtz, Musiala, Palmer, Bruno, XaviS, Odegaard, Eze, etc are definitely attacking midfielders. Bellingham is debatable but more box to box I agree.

In modern day systems, many of these players start on paper as a CM, RW or LW but that is only for the defensive phase and shape. In the possession phase they either move forward to the attacking midfield position(like KDB) or drift inwards into number 10 pockets(like Palmer).

Also there are top teams today that play with a proper number 10, period. We play a number 10 under Slot. Szoboszlai did it this season. That is exactly why we're signing Florian.
 
Horatio

Horatio

You're welcome
I am confident he wasn’t. Sometimes you have to tilt your head a bit to see properly where the line would run.
 
malvolio

malvolio

Senior Member
Maradona37 said:
I seen it again too. He's definitely offside lol, he's leaning into an offside position.

Fucking scandalous decision. At least it's only the Nations League. But you know his fanboys will be acting like he worked a miracle with that goal.
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I don't get why they would do that though.
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
Also, look at this, 7.42 to 7.45. He's hanging about in an offside position (as he always does). Comes slightly back, then when the ball is played through he goes through on goal and has the jump on the defenders who came out to high.

Tempt is trying to call this GOAT positioning. It really doesn't take much football IQ to hang about in an offside position up front then dart for the squared low cross, especially when you have over 10 years of muscle memory and experience of doing it in that position.

He does have fantastic movement but this isn't a partricularly great example of it. There's no decoy run or change of direction or anything. To be fair there doesn't have to be,

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Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
Temptation said:
Pedri is a CM. He isn't an AM. I said this 2 years back.

I'm just listing the most highly rated young midfielders from the recent years.

KDB, Olmo, Wirtz, Musiala, Palmer, Bruno, XaviS, Odegaard, Eze, etc are definitely attacking midfielders. Bellingham is debatable but more box to box I agree.

In modern day systems, many of these players start on paper as a CM, RW or LW but that is only for the defensive phase and shape. In the possession phase they either move forward to the attacking midfield position(like KDB) or drift inwards into number 10 pockets(like Palmer).

Also there are top teams today that play with a proper number 10, period. We play a number 10 under Slot. Szoboszlai did it this season. That is exactly why we're signing Florian.
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I agree on Pedri, as you know. I also agree they're all attacking midfielders, just saying it's a different style of attacking midfielder than the number 10s of the 80s and 90s. They're much more athletic now and while they have a lot of talent, they don't open doors with magic passes like those players did.

I mean they can, but not as consistently and to as high a level (though to be fair I am comparing them to the GOAT 10s). Maybe Palmer is the best example of that list, or KDB or Wirtz.

Guys like Odegaard (more of an 8/10 hybrid), Simons and especially Fernandes don't play much like the 10s of the past. It's hard to put into words but you can just see the difference when you watch them.

I respect your opinion on the issue, though.
 
T

Temptation

Well-known member
Since people dismissed my KDB point by saying Xavi, Iniesta and Modric are better:

Zidane is a number 10 according to most managers and the man himself.

He's rated higher than CMs like Xavi, Iniesta, Modric generally. Now I am sure people here will disagree with that but we can all agree that Zidane is a bigger name than all of them and more highly rated within the game.

Messi and Ronaldo talk about Zidane like he's one of the GOATs lol. We saw how much Messi respects him in that Adidas thing. Ronaldo said Zidane and Messi are the greatest players he has ever seen. R9 said he's the best player he has ever played with.

So number 10s can be better than CMs which was my argument.
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
Temptation said:
Since people dismissed my KDB point by saying Xavi, Iniesta and Modric are better:

Zidane is a number 10 according to most managers and the man himself.

He's rated higher than CMs like Xavi, Iniesta, Modric generally. Now I am sure people here will disagree with that but we can all agree that Zidane is a bigger name than all of them and more highly rated within the game.

Messi and Ronaldo talk about Zidane like he's one of the GOATs lol. We saw how much Messi respects him in that Adidas thing. Ronaldo said Zidane and Messi are the greatest players he has ever seen. R9 said he's the best player he has ever played with.

So number 10s can be better than CMs which was my argument.
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Yes, number 10s in a trequartista or 'in the hole' position, who literally wear 10 on their back a lot, were often the best player in the team. Zidane was a genius and one of the greatest players ever (though not in my top 10 ever even though he was one of my childhood footballing idols).

What I have argued is that the number 10s I grew up watching as an infant, young teenager and young adult were a different style of player to the more athletic, more pressing, often 'quasi' number 10s of now. And that 10 is more of a decayed position now, and even 10s of now play more like a third central midfielder or quasi 10.

Do you disagree with that? Or not have enough knowledge/watching of number 10s of 80s and 90s to really say? I think it's fair to say that Maradona, Zico, Platini, Zidane and Baggio played differently often to Eze, Fernandes, Rogers, De Bruyne, even Palmer. But of course it is a misleading discussion as I am comparing some of the greatest players ever to 'merely' current PL level/very good/best players of their generation types.

Who do you think now plays like Baggio or Platini or Zidane? can you give examples. I like the respectful discussion, just curious who you think there could be.
 
M

mc_lovin

Senior Member
If you look at the last 10 CL finals there's only really one team playing with a 10... City is the outlier. Not to mention before that the classic 433 Barca and Real as serial winners (after ditching Ozil!).

Maybe that trend will change again though, who knows. And Wirtz can also develop into a CM or play false 9. But yeah, I wouldn't count on it. Also why I hope Gavi, Bernal and Casado deliver next season. Fuck the Olmos of the world ;)
 
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