1 - Marc-Andre ter Ansplant

[te amo barca]

Also, my argument came from you saying ter Stegen can't be good because Neuer is rated higher
Yet you said Martinez who was rated lower than Leno is better than Stegen.
Neuer is still a top 10 keeper btw, not shameful to be below him. Leno on the other hand...?

Is your point that, because things change quickly in football, Barcelona should switch keeper once every other year? I do not believe in that, even if it was done perfectly and meant Barcelonas keeper would always be better than if they stayed with one and the same for longer.

My point was not that Neuer is rated higher. He was rated lower than Stegen was on that list. My point was that Neuer has always been a better GK than Stegen, and will continue to be until he retires. He is just one of the best GKs ever, period - Yashin level.

And no, I absolutely don't mean that Barca should switch keepers every other year. You conjured up that point by yourself. That point was a complementary one to show you that some players burst onto the scene relatively late in order to try to change your opinion of Martinez. Your main argument on Martinez is that he was benched for years at various clubs, and therefore he canot be a top GK. That is wrong.

Regarding Mats, my point is that we do need to sell him.

 

[Bobo32]

The comparison is that many players, and especially goalkeepers, are late bloomers. Martinez's rise in just a year has been outstanding. He was voted Villa's best player by their fans over the likes of Grealish. He has made a number of clutch saves to end Argentina's title drought. Time will show whether he cements himself among the world's best GKs like Navas did but you should not discard a player just because he was benched in some other teams. Harry Kane polished Leicester's bench just a year before he exploded, for instance. Kante played second division football before he was 23, and so on.

I don't know how many times I need to write that I don't discard him or anyone I didn't see enough.

Kante at 23 and Kane at 19(!) are examples you put at the back of your head as players being late bloomers. You would probably bring up Vardy and Drogba as well if I'd press you, but I won't! I am very much aware there are some late bloomers, and I believe there are MANY players that never got the chance to bloom late too, who disappeared instead.
Martinez might be the most extreme case I know of. He almost turned 30 before he played his first full season!

Yes time will tell. Maybe fergus90 have a basis to judge him, if he has the right eyes, but I doubt he could really after just one season. I don't think even Barcelonas scouting network have enough info on this player to judge if he could be an improvement over Stegen.
I do not think it's extremely impressive that he was voted as Aston Villas best player btw. Barcelona is some levels above that, Grealish is pretty shit compared to Barcelonas level, an example of extreme overhype.

 

[Daniele]

I am not saying they are incompetent, but rather uninformed - they just do not follow Barca and do not watch the games and form their opinion off some isolated matches, FIFA, PES, youtube videos, rating lists and so on.

instead I guess you watch every single game of every goalkeeper you say is better than him. but pleaseeeeeeeee

 

[Daniele]

Saying mats is still a class keeper/terrific keep is basically saying pique & lenglet are also class/terrifical & to say such a statement about anyone it them, is to ignore reality.

Terrific/class goalkeepers don't get embarrassed as consistently as they do when they come up against top class opposition.

8-2
0-4
0-3
......

the results are
6,
-4 and -3,
right?

 

[te amo barca]

Quality is pretty permanent, reputation (often based on form) change pretty quickly. This is my view.
I did not yet see ter Stegen drop massively in quality, and I did not see him making a lot of mistakes.
I do not think he crumbled against Liverpool, PSG or Bayern, and I did not see him leaking a lot of goals this season. If you could show some examples to remind me I'd watch.

Okay. In the previous season, he let in an easy goal for Carrasco in our 0-1 loss at Wanda in autumn. Rushed out of goal and let Carrasco nutmeg him outside of his box. That was a ridiculous goal that is not conceded by a top GK.

He became much worse by spring. In the decisive series of games in April, he conceded 7 goals from 11 shots on target. See the Granada game (1-2) for example, he conceded two goals from two shots on target in a must-win game.

His mental attributes like commanding the defense and the area and confidence are just not good enough.

 

[te amo barca]

I am getting weary of arguing over the same things - it's clear that Daniele or Bobo will not change their opinions, just like I won't. Let's just say I do not rate Stegen that much and don't think Barca wins another CL with Stegen in goal (of course other areas on the pitch also need to be strengthened for that to be viable). La Liga is possible but CL is out of the question. I think we need to sell him while he's worth something and while his reputation is not tarnished very much. His knees are also an issue. We'll see who is right in the upcoming season. If he manages to have a good season without making a clown out of himself, I'll gladly take my L.

 

[Bobo32]

Okay. In the previous season, he let in an easy goal for Carrasco in our 0-1 loss at Wanda in autumn. Rushed out of goal and let Carrasco nutmeg him outside of his box. That was a ridiculous goal that is not conceded by a top GK.

He became much worse by spring. In the decisive series of games in April, he conceded 7 goals from 11 shots on target. See the Granada game (1-2) for example, he conceded two goals from two shots on target in a must-win game.

His mental attributes like commanding the defense and the area and confidence are just not good enough.

Atletico was a mistake yes. But not ridiculous, Carrasco got a great touch on the ball, 9/10 times Stegen wins the ball there. But he should've stayed and that goal is on him of course. But a risk worth taking to concede a goal like that once in a while in order to play a high line - sometimes there are mistakes and that was one.

This is the Granada-game you mean? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UDoTJJ2Bas
Please watch this anyone who reads. A 1v1 and a perfect header, there is NO keeper born ever who wouldn't concede these goals once in a while. Sometimes they save them yes, ter Stegen does too, but if you criticize these two goals, it says a lot about how unreasonable the critique is.

 

[te amo barca]

Please watch this anyone who reads. A 1v1 and a perfect header, there is NO keeper born ever who wouldn't concede these goals once in a while. Sometimes they save them yes, ter Stegen does too, but if you criticize these two goals, it says a lot about how unreasonable the critique is.

The issue is that he concedes those goals when it matters all the time, like a clock. But you clearly don't think so. I am out of this thread until Mats recovers from his injury and starts playing

 

[Bobo32]

I am getting weary of arguing over the same things - it's clear that Daniele or Bobo will not change their opinions, just like I won't. Let's just say I do not rate Stegen that much and don't think Barca wins another CL with Stegen in goal (of course other areas on the pitch also need to be strengthened for that to be viable). La Liga is possible but CL is out of the question. I think we need to sell him while he's worth something and while his reputation is not tarnished very much. His knees are also an issue. We'll see who is right in the upcoming season. If he manages to have a good season without making a clown out of himself, I'll gladly take my L.

I have no issue with you thinking he is not good enough.
Maybe you and some others are correct in that he became worse in later years, and I didn't notice.
I don't believe so, but it will be clearer with time. He will need to be fit again first as well...

I won't argue more about that general thing, but if I see silly things like him not being able to save 50% of shots, or Donnarumma being a superior keeper, I maybe cannot keep myself from arguing a bit.

 

[DonAK]

Donnarumma is a superior goalkeeper.

 

[Givenchy]

Valdes made his fair share of fuckups over the years, luckily we had the golden generation team with a warrior Puyol and prime Pique with Xaviesta etc to control matches. Not that I rate MaTS particularly but the defense is a unit and an old Pique-Lenglet is hardly a defense that instills confidence. I noticed a lack of leadership and a huge lack of communication.

 

[Bobo32]

The issue is that he concedes those goals when it matters all the time, like a clock. But you clearly don't think so. I am out of this thread until Mats recovers from his injury and starts playing

Mingueza shouldn't be out of position and stumble on the ball to let a player into a 1v1 then, then ter Stegen wouldn't concede 1-1
Pique shouldn't be lazy in his positioning but head the ball away, then ter Stegen wouldn't concede 1-2

These 2 goals are not completely unstoppable, but not something you expect the keeper to save either. Maybe a great keeper saves each of these 1/5 times or even 1/3 if you are really generous. That game was lost because Messi didn't score on Busquets BRILLIANT pass, and Griezmann and Roberto also missed good chances. Also Koemans general gameplan gives too little control in general.

I think it's a fans perspective a lot here with ter Stegen, and not an objective analysts. "Conceding goals when it matters", it's not about his quality, but about the viewers feelings, and ter Stegen is an easy scapegoat when a goal is conceded. Granada is a great example where he is not at fault - he could be replaced by anyone and the replacement would make the same "mistakes" no matter who it was.

 

[raedkuwait]

Valdes made his fair share of fuckups over the years, luckily we had the golden generation team with a warrior Puyol and prime Pique with Xaviesta etc to control matches. Not that I rate MaTS particularly but the defense is a unit and an old Pique-Lenglet is hardly a defense that instills confidence. I noticed a lack of leadership and a huge lack of communication.

Valdes is 5 times the keeper Mats is, get this in your
Head barca defence was never ever that good, and ww
Conceded lots of shots every game, if mats was
Our keeper against arsenal in the final we would
Have conceded at least 5 goals, yes Valdes has has fair
Share of brain farts, but, he had fucking balls
And had a beast mode in him in important games.

 

[Barcilliant]

Valdes is 5 times the keeper Mats is, get this in your
Head barca defence was never ever that good, and ww
Conceded lots of shots every game, if mats was
Our keeper against arsenal in the final we would
Have conceded at least 5 goals, yes Valdes has has fair
Share of brain farts, but, he had fucking balls
And had a beast mode in him in important games.

This. Valdes had balls. If Valdes had been in goal against Bayern we would have probably conceded five or six not eight!
Ter Stegen is weak mentally and tries to cover it up with fake confidence or arrogance.

 

[malvolio]

Valdes is 5 times the keeper Mats is, get this in your
Head barca defence was never ever that good, and ww
Conceded lots of shots every game, if mats was
Our keeper against arsenal in the final we would
Have conceded at least 5 goals, yes Valdes has has fair
Share of brain farts, but, he had fucking balls
And had a beast mode in him in important games.

yeah, beast mode with the greatest team around, that controlled every match they were in.

lay off the drugs son.