Lionel Messi - v7

[ThwiX]

This thread for the last couple of pages is just why some of the best members on here left.

 

[Tackle]

Of course Messi is going to have the most goals assists dribbles key passes touches and all those stats if he is the one starting and ending almost every attack. This is not an indicator of him becoming better or something. Better stats do not mean he is playing better. It is clear that Leo has declined compared to 14/15 or 11/12. His decision making in attack has been becoming more questionable and sometimes even frustrating in these last two years, and I’m not talking about the obvious physical decline.

+1

Simply cannot cope with the blind Messi fanboys raving about how Leo has maintained his peak level.

Just isn't true.

He has kept his stats afloat by forcing himself into every action in the final third and insisting absolutely everything goes through him. Some of this may be down to the fact the team around him has gotten worse, but a lot of it is also Messi himself becoming lethargic in defense and more restless in attack simply jogging to whomever has the ball and expecting as pass without any respect whatsoever for allowing structured build up or maintaining positional stability. One moment he will be on the left wing next to Alba and the other he'll be besides Busquets deep in the midfield. This is not how a team is supposed to function.

Like I've mentioned before, I would much rather have a 40 goal + 20 assist Messi playing a team game, than a 55 goal + 30 assist Messi doing as he pleases and pumping his stats against minnows only for the team to fall apart in big matches with Messi's style being counter productive.

This is not the same ruthless, clinical, efficient Leo of yesteryear where he would keep his shape, not disrupt the overall team play for offense and pop up with two goals on two shots or two assists on two passes. The bloke is currently more of a laissez faire, more static player that is less ruthless, but still a high producer due to the sheer volume of balls coming off his foot in the final third and talent level obviously.

 

[Givenchy]

+1

Simply cannot cope with the blind Messi fanboys raving about how Leo has maintained his peak level.

Just isn't true.

He has kept his stats afloat by forcing himself into every action in the final third and insisting absolutely everything goes through him. Some of this may be down to the fact the team around him has gotten worse, but a lot of it is also Messi himself becoming lethargic in defense and more restless in attack simply jogging to whomever has the ball and expecting as pass without any respect whatsoever for allowing structured build up or maintaining positional stability. One moment he will be on the left wing next to Alba and the other he'll be besides Busquets deep in the midfield. This is not how a team is supposed to function.

Like I've mentioned before, I would much rather have a 40 goal + 20 assist Messi playing a team game, than a 55 goal + 30 assist Messi doing as he pleases and pumping his stats against minnows only for the team to fall apart in big matches with Messi's style being counter productive.

This is not the same ruthless, clinical, efficient Leo of yesteryear where he would keep his shape, not disrupt the overall team play for offense and pop up with two goals on two shots or two assists on two passes. The bloke is currently more of a laissez faire, more static player that is less ruthless, but still a high producer due to the sheer volume of balls coming off his foot in the final third and talent level obviously.

100% this

next season in midfield we have Arthur in his 2nd season and Frenkie. the excuse Messi is dropping deep standing next to fucking Busi to bring the ball forward because our midfield sucks and can't create is dead. sadly he'll still be doing that next season as nobody has the balls to tell him any different. he just doesn't have the pace to drive forward from deep as he used to. with Suarez and his concrete boots, we NEED our most lethal attacker closest to the opp's goal*

the stupid part about all this is Messi doesn't need to 'carry' Barca anymore. Griezmann, Frenkie, possibly Neymar can all share the burden

feels like we are in some kind of limbo; I love Messi and hes the GOAT for me but im a Barca fan first and foremost. it seems we just have to wait for him and the seniors to retire/leave before we see a functioning team which is sad tbh. i can still watch his magic but i don't think we'll win another CL like this

*this is where Ronaldo is rated higher by many. he has height, great heading and can adapt his game accordingly and thats vital in the CL

 

[DonAndres]

If this were the 13/14 or 15/16 season I'd understand what I'm seeing in this thread.

I do challenge people to name the games where Messi really failed to do his part in the past season for Barca. He was great in every big game, including Anfield.

Look at the big chances we missed on offense. First was a Messi error, but then 3 in a row where he set up 1v1 chances on a platter that weren't finished. 2 of those were insane throughballs to Suarez and Alba which would've been some of his most iconic assists ever if they had finished, because he split Van Dijk both times. Not to mention he had more touches than almost every single Liverpool player, dribbles/vicious shots that just barely went wide. It wasn't his best game but if you call that a lazy/deflated performance then I have no clue what you're on.



Look, on May 3rd or so we were league champions, CDR finalists, and up 3-0 in the CL semifinals about to head to the final. We were in prime position to win the treble, and Messi was captaining the team through all of it and carrying us in our most important games with goal and assist contributions (vs Spurs, Lyon, United, Liverpool, Atleti). At this point, he was having one of his best seasons ever and would've probably been his greatest if we did win the treble. To me, it was gonna be his best ever because he was carrying us with no Iniesta/Xavi/Neymar/prime Suarez/etc. it was all his effort. I think he was better in 10/11, 11/12, and 14/15 but he was his most well rounded ever in 18/19 and he was not showing any of the passive/invisible problems he had in the past.

Then Anfield happened, and our season fell apart. I think everyone here knows it's a 100% fact that we never would've lost the CDR final either if we didn't lose at Anfield. The team was insanely deflated after that loss.

The question is, do you blame Messi for Anfield? Compared to the likes of Rakitic/Alba/Lenglet/Suarez/Coutinho? Because before that game, it was undoubtedly one of his best seasons.

 

[FCB1987]

If this were the 13/14 or 15/16 season I'd understand what I'm seeing in this thread.

I do challenge people to name the games where Messi really failed to do his part in the past season for Barca. He was great in every big game, including Anfield.

Look at the big chances we missed on offense. First was a Messi error, but then 3 in a row where he set up 1v1 chances on a platter that weren't finished. 2 of those were insane throughballs to Suarez and Alba which would've been some of his most iconic assists ever if they had finished, because he split Van Dijk both times. Not to mention he had more touches than almost every single Liverpool player, dribbles/vicious shots that just barely went wide. It wasn't his best game but if you call that a lazy/deflated performance then I have no clue what you're on.



Look, on May 3rd or so we were league champions, CDR finalists, and up 3-0 in the CL semifinals about to head to the final. We were in prime position to win the treble, and Messi was captaining the team through all of it and carrying us in our most important games with goal and assist contributions (vs Spurs, Lyon, United, Liverpool, Atleti). At this point, he was having one of his best seasons ever and would've probably been his greatest if we did win the treble. To me, it was gonna be his best ever because he was carrying us with no Iniesta/Xavi/Neymar/prime Suarez/etc. it was all his effort. I think he was better in 10/11, 11/12, and 14/15 but he was his most well rounded ever in 18/19 and he was not showing any of the passive/invisible problems he had in the past.

Then Anfield happened, and our season fell apart. I think everyone here knows it's a 100% fact that we never would've lost the CDR final either if we didn't lose at Anfield. The team was insanely deflated after that loss.

The question is, do you blame Messi for Anfield? Compared to the likes of Rakitic/Alba/Lenglet/Suarez/Coutinho? Because before that game, it was undoubtedly one of his best seasons.

We were close to the treble because we literally had zero challenge until that point. Atletico and Real were both terrible domestically, which made winning the league basically a given barring some unprecedented injury crisis. In the Champions League, we also got one of the easiest paths to a title in history. Lyon would be midtable in La Liga and United were a fucking shambles when we played them.

Even against Lyon and United, we were far from impressive. Let's be honest, our performance over the first 105 minutes of the tie against United (until Messi's first goal) would have probably put us down by at least 4-5 goals against a top team. I thought our display at Old Trafford and the start at the Camp Nou was even worse than at Anfield. Against Lyon, we also were poor away from home and had a very shaky period at 2-1 until Messi's second goal.

So you can say that we were close to a treble, but you can also say that we got our asses handed to us by the first decent team we faced in the competition. If we had drawn any decent team in the first two rounds and played the way we did, we would have been knocked out easily.

 

[DonAndres]

We were close to the treble because we literally had zero challenge until that point. Atletico and Real were both terrible domestically, which made winning the league basically a given barring some unprecedented injury crisis. In the Champions League, we also got one of the easiest paths to a title in history. Lyon would be midtable in La Liga and United were a fucking shambles when we played them.

Even against Lyon and United, we were far from impressive. Let's be honest, our performance over the first 105 minutes of the tie against United (until Messi's first goal) would have probably put us down by at least 4-5 goals against a top team. I thought our display at Old Trafford and the start at the Camp Nou was even worse than at Anfield. Against Lyon, we also were poor away from home and had a very shaky period at 2-1 until Messi's second goal.

So you can say that we were close to a treble, but you can also say that we got our asses handed to us by the first decent team we faced in the competition. If we had drawn any decent team in the first two rounds and played the way we did, we would have been knocked out easily.

Well I didn't claim we were great as a team. We were on course to win all those titles because of Messi showing up week in week out to carry us in the league and scoring/creating almost every goal we scored in the CL knockouts. It was a testament to Leo's effort that this team which was so clearly weak and vulnerable in big CL games managed to go so far and have one foot in the CL final.

Lyon might've not been too tough of an opponent but they did have very good players like N'dombele/Aouar. United aren't anything special either but still a top English team. Liverpool are at worst a top 2 team in the world and Spurs who we also played made the CL final and top 3 in the EPL.

Messi scored against all of those teams and assisted against 2. So, again, I ask where exactly he fell short this season? His "disappointing" game at Anfield was actually a great game by pretty much every player's standards, you can't generate all the offense and then score every fucking time.

 

[FCB1987]

.Messi scored against all of those teams and assisted against 2. So, again, I ask where exactly he fell short this season? His "disappointing" game at Anfield was actually a great game by pretty much every player's standards, you can't generate all the offense and then score every fucking time.

I've already said that I think he fell way short in his contribution off the ball at Anfield. I wouldn't say that Messi had a terrible game there because he did create several chances, but it definitely wasn't a great game either by virtually any standard when you consider how badly our lack of defending from the front screwed us over. My issue with Messi's performance isn't that he was the worst player, it's that he didn't even seem to care which is inexcusable given the circumstances.

 

[snowy]

So f'kin what FCB, you wanna give him a few hundred lashes haha go ahead he'll fuck in the ass with your own legs before you even get near him

lmao biaaatches still bitchin cuz Messi didn't run a marathon

 

[FCB1987]

So f'kin what FCB, you wanna give him a few hundred lashes haha go ahead he'll fuck in the ass with your own legs before you even get near him

lmao biaaatches still bitchin cuz Messi didn't run a marathon

1. Keep your homoerotic fantasies to yourself next time

2. There's middle ground between running a marathon and not making us play with 10 men for the 98% of the match where Messi doesn't have the ball

 

[snowy]

making us play with 10 men for the 98% of the match where Messi doesn't have the ball

so with Messi on the pitch, it's like we're playing with 10 men 98% of the time? riiiiight

ok so you're coach and you ask Messi to run more off the ball. My bet is, he won't change his style. So what do you then, you bench him during CL matches?

Good luck with that!

 

[FCB1987]

so with Messi on the pitch, it's like we're playing with 10 men 98% of the time? riiiiight

ok so you're coach and you ask Messi to run more off the ball. My bet is, he won't change his style. So what do you then, you bench him during CL matches?

Good luck with that!

If Messi wasn't going to run more, I would at least start him in the middle instead of having him walk alongside a crocked Suarez

 

[Mitchell1978]

I've already said that I think he fell way short in his contribution off the ball at Anfield. I wouldn't say that Messi had a terrible game there because he did create several chances, but it definitely wasn't a great game either by virtually any standard when you consider how badly our lack of defending from the front screwed us over. My issue with Messi's performance isn't that he was the worst player, it's that he didn't even seem to care which is inexcusable given the circumstances.

So you dislike the performance because of Messi's introverted nature... sounds very objective

(also its time to remove that obnoxius dyke from your avatar...)

 

[FCB1987]

So you dislike the performance because of Messi's introverted nature... sounds very objective

(also its time to remove that obnoxius dyke from your avatar...)

Being introverted means you can't press or run?

and stay classy Trumpcel

 

[clemente]

If this were the 13/14 or 15/16 season I'd understand what I'm seeing in this thread.

I do challenge people to name the games where Messi really failed to do his part in the past season for Barca. He was great in every big game, including Anfield.

Look at the big chances we missed on offense. First was a Messi error, but then 3 in a row where he set up 1v1 chances on a platter that weren't finished. 2 of those were insane throughballs to Suarez and Alba which would've been some of his most iconic assists ever if they had finished, because he split Van Dijk both times. Not to mention he had more touches than almost every single Liverpool player, dribbles/vicious shots that just barely went wide. It wasn't his best game but if you call that a lazy/deflated performance then I have no clue what you're on.



Look, on May 3rd or so we were league champions, CDR finalists, and up 3-0 in the CL semifinals about to head to the final. We were in prime position to win the treble, and Messi was captaining the team through all of it and carrying us in our most important games with goal and assist contributions (vs Spurs, Lyon, United, Liverpool, Atleti). At this point, he was having one of his best seasons ever and would've probably been his greatest if we did win the treble. To me, it was gonna be his best ever because he was carrying us with no Iniesta/Xavi/Neymar/prime Suarez/etc. it was all his effort. I think he was better in 10/11, 11/12, and 14/15 but he was his most well rounded ever in 18/19 and he was not showing any of the passive/invisible problems he had in the past.

Then Anfield happened, and our season fell apart. I think everyone here knows it's a 100% fact that we never would've lost the CDR final either if we didn't lose at Anfield. The team was insanely deflated after that loss.

The question is, do you blame Messi for Anfield? Compared to the likes of Rakitic/Alba/Lenglet/Suarez/Coutinho? Because before that game, it was undoubtedly one of his best seasons.

Blame Messi? Really? Messi? Are you stupid? What exactly do you blame him for?

 

[Never_Forget40]

Of course Messi is going to have the most goals assists dribbles key passes touches and all those stats if he is the one starting and ending almost every attack. This is not an indicator of him becoming better or something. Better stats do not mean he is playing better. It is clear that Leo has declined compared to 14/15 or 11/12. His decision making in attack has been becoming more questionable and sometimes even frustrating in these last two years, and I’m not talking about the obvious physical decline.

THIS!