Christian Eriksen

[AndreC]

Generally the team with the best midfield wins the champions league. Bring Eriksen over Griezmann and improve defense, therefore barça will be in contention for cl in the next years.

 

[MessiCam]

No. I'm talking about 2 different teams. One with Paulinho, one with Griezmann.

Oh. Makes more sense now.

Paulinho behind the strikers who can shift positions with Messi or Messi behind Suarez and Griezmann, as inside forwards.

But this is misuse of Paulinho and has often been the case under Valverde. Paulinho lacks the creativity to play in the hole. He is the definition of a box to box midfielder and the reason for his success for the Barazilian team is the proper use of his skill set.

Playing Messi in the hole behind 2 strikers is too narrow. You may as well play with wings because it gives you more attacking options and Messi is presented with same issues as a False 9 role.

Formations are not important here. I was talking about space. WC players were given space and what did they do? Also, was talking about the match at Nou Camp.

Again, in this scenario Suarez played as the CF and shat the bed while Messi and Neymar ran the show. Problem here was Rakitic having to cover the RW again.

No, I don't think that. But I do think that playing with a striker is more effective. Even more with mobile and flexible strikers who can change positions.

Suarez is not effective against parked buses. Never has been and never will.

For instance, if you have Ronaldo on the left and Messi in the middle, then yes, go for right now. But Coutinho? Different players.

So why can’t Griezmann pick up similar positions from the right?

Striker is the difference. Or players on the wings. I could accept 4-3-3 false 9 if other 2 weren't Dembele and Coutinho.

Why? You need explain this because the 2 of them can easily contribute 40 + goals and they’re extremely creative to boot. Suarez and Griezmann or 2 strikers aren’t going to offer you goals as well as creativity...

Before I reply, if you could make changes, how would your team look like?

In an ideal world I’d stick Messi on RW. There is no more beautiful sight in football than RW Messi but I know it’s unrealistic.

So from the rumoured transfers...
Roberto/Semedo — Pique/Lenglet — Umtiti/Vermaelen — Alba/Digne

Thiago/Arthur — Busquets/Rakitic — Coutinho/Aleñá

Griezmann/Dembélé — Messi/Suárez — Dembélé/Denis

The first options would be my starting 11. Arthur and Aleñá never start together until they’re established. Your options are endless tactically... Regarding the back 4... Unless Vermaelen is sold and a right footer is brought in it might get uncomfortable with 3 lefties.

That said, if it were up to me I wouldn’t sign Griezmann. I’d sign a world class CM with more attacking intent than Thiago (I’d still sign Thiago though) because Aleñá I feel has a long slog ahead of him. But other than Eriksen (whom I don’t like for a CM role) such players are hard to come by and you might as well use Coutinho in midfield with Dembélé on the LW. Should a suitable CM be found Coutinho plays LW and Dembélé RW.

PS, I always play Griezmann on the right because he is the inside forward, is left footed and Dembélé is ambidextrous. Also, on the occasions that Aleñá starts, Thiago/Arthur move to LCM.

I think your attack is exceptional and most of all midfield has balance. Thiago and Arthur are very good defensively whereas Coutinho and Aleñá although less adept work hard in defense.

Edit: Alternatively if you’re intent on using Coutinho as a midfielder then forget about Griezmann and sign Martial. He is is striker/winger hybrid and provides an aerial threat too.

 

[JamDav1982]

Paulinhos best position far and away has been when up behind Messi and/or Suarez.

Where he can press, move off ball and offer some physicality in final third.

The misuse of him has been when he has played deeper or on the right. He doesnt have the build up play to be a CM, a box to box mid or out wide.

 

[MessiCam]

Paulinhos best position far and away has been when up behind Messi and/or Suarez.

Where he can press, move off ball and offer some physicality in final third.

The misuse of him has been when he has played deeper or on the right. He doesnt have the build up play to be a CM, a box to box mid or out wide.

Paulinho is a box to box CM for Brazil. He does not play in the hole there. You can’t have someone like him playing as a 10 due to his lack of creativity... The reason it works at Barça is due to Messi picking up his position leaving him to roam. Take Messi out then you’re up shit creek.

I also disagree about that position being his best for us. His best performances have come when playing RCM with Messi as False 9 earlier in the season when for the reason explained above he could make runs into the box. It was the same with Keita.

 

[BBZ8800]

Exactly when Messi lose his pace, his one and only strength is as a false 9, there's simply no way around it. He needs pace from other players for him to execute his creativity, not players like Suarez who struggle to get past the defenders when Messi drops deep occassionally. Messi is the heart of attacks, counter attacks even, something even Real Madrid lacks terribly, when Isco fails to play consistently. Messi is an attacking jaugernaut that has executed the false 9 so perfectly, it's a no brainer that people try to accomodate players like fking Suarez when really, you should be building a team around Messi.

That being said, I think many people mistaken the players and manager failed tactics as Messi's false 9 being a catastrophe. Not at all. It's the players who feel the tendency to pass to Messi all the time instead of having their own pace, confidence and talent to make use of spaces, players like Coutinho, Dembele as opposed to players like Suarez. Rakitic did go on his own against Madrid but after that he just fizzled out and Valverde's tactics just restricted so much space and movement for Messi's false 9 to even work.

I am of opinion that we would turn into a total shit with Messi at false 9, without Suarez as a CF and with 2 wide wingers.
We would end the 3rd in La liga and got knocked out in a CL's quarters by anyone.

Messi as a false 9 in 2019 without CF in the box would be surrounded by 5 defenders.
And since our other players can't score (except Coutinho) that would turn into a comedy quite soon and Messipendencia 2-3x times stronger than already.

Probably even the most defensive 442 with 4 workhorses would create more chances per match than 433 with Messi as a false 9 in 2018/19.

 

[MessiCam]

I am of opinion that we would turn into a total shit with Messi at false 9, without Suarez as a CF and with 2 wide wingers.
We would end the 3rd in La liga and got knocked out in a CL's quarters by anyone.

Messi as a false 9 in 2019 without CF in the box would be surrounded by 5 defenders.
And since our other players can't score (except Coutinho) that would turn into a comedy quite soon and Messipendencia 2-3x times stronger than already.

Probably even the most defensive 442 with 4 workhorses would create more chances per match than 433 with Messi as a false 9 in 2018/19.

Hold me down son... Guess you forgot to watch the early season games as well as 2014/15 Champions League then. I am completely stumped that you’d say something like this in all honesty.

In 2014/15 25 goals and 15 assists came as False 9. Thats out of 58 and 27 respectively.

 

[Joan]

But this is misuse of Paulinho and has often been the case under Valverde. Paulinho lacks the creativity to play in the hole. He is the definition of a box to box midfielder and the reason for his success for the Barazilian team is the proper use of his skill set.

Playing Messi in the hole behind 2 strikers is too narrow. You may as well play with wings because it gives you more attacking options and Messi is presented with same issues as a False 9 role.

But Paulinho can't pass well enough, is not as hard-working as we'd like him to be. Keita was a superior passer and a better defenseman.

I think his best game for us was the one vs. Real Madrid. Pressing Kroos and covering on the right. I clearly remember a few times Marcelo tried to cross but was surrendered by Paulinho and someone else.

You say that it works only because of Messi which is true. But when Messi dops back we sometimes have 2 players in the box and can even cross. Crossing is huge for my part.

Look at this video: Real Madrid all goals 2016/17.
I don't want us to become Madrid, but they scored at least 90% of their goals after a cross/longshot. Pulling numbers from my ass but it's close.

It's way easier. Why not utilize on it? Won't go BBZ now and say 70% possesion, 30% other things. But we should have more options.

[youtube]E4pGtnqX2P4[/youtube]

Again, in this scenario Suarez played as the CF and shat the bed while Messi and Neymar ran the show. Problem here was Rakitic having to cover the RW again.

Your point was about space. We didn't create much, that's my point despite having tons of space. Could we cross...

Suarez is not effective against parked buses. Never has been and never will.

So why can’t Griezmann pick up similar positions from the right?

True about Suarez. But he still does things strikers do. Stretches the pitch centrally etc.

Yes, that's why I want Griezmann. But he's still not good in the air. To be honest, wouldn't mind Aubameyang at all. Or a similar guy. If we had someone like him who could utilize crosses, combine well and exchange positions, I'd have no problems with Messi playing in the middle and that someone as an inside-forward.

Why? You need explain this because the 2 of them can easily contribute 40 + goals and they’re extremely creative to boot. Suarez and Griezmann or 2 strikers aren’t going to offer you goals as well as creativity...

Because there is no constant presence in the box. Messi is between the lines, Coutinho and Dembele are wide... and who's in the box? What we do when the ball is on the wing?

That's the main question, what do we do when the ball is on the wing since we can't cross? Try to play it back to Messi and lose it. That would happen most of the times.

And concede a counter.

In an ideal world I’d stick Messi on RW. There is no more beautiful sight in football than RW Messi but I know it’s unrealistic.

So from the rumoured transfers...
Roberto/Semedo — Pique/Lenglet — Umtiti/Vermaelen — Alba/Digne

Thiago/Arthur — Busquets/Rakitic — Coutinho/Aleñá

Griezmann/Dembélé — Messi/Suárez — Dembélé/Denis

The first options would be my starting 11. Arthur and Aleñá never start together until they’re established. Your options are endless tactically... Regarding the back 4... Unless Vermaelen is sold and a right footer is brought in it might get uncomfortable with 3 lefties.

That said, if it were up to me I wouldn’t sign Griezmann. I’d sign a world class CM with more attacking intent than Thiago (I’d still sign Thiago though) because Aleñá I feel has a long slog ahead of him. But other than Eriksen (whom I don’t like for a CM role) such players are hard to come by and you might as well use Coutinho in midfield with Dembélé on the LW. Should a suitable CM be found Coutinho plays LW and Dembélé RW.

PS, I always play Griezmann on the right because he is the inside forward, is left footed and Dembélé is ambidextrous. Also, on the occasions that Aleñá starts, Thiago/Arthur move to LCM.

I think your attack is exceptional and most of all midfield has balance. Thiago and Arthur are very good defensively whereas Coutinho and Aleñá although less adept work hard in defense.

Edit: Alternatively if you’re intent on using Coutinho as a midfielder then forget about Griezmann and sign Martial. He is is striker/winger hybrid and provides an aerial threat too.

Look, I can even agree with you on this up to a point.

I attacked the false 9 right away. Maybe shouldn't have, although still have serious doubts. But the other two in the front three present a problem for me.

Dembele's finishing is poor. Coutinho's limited.

Don't want us to rely upon that. We need a constant threat in the box. IMO.

 

[MessiCam]

No centre forward is a constant presence in the box. That ship has sailed a long time ago. Messi gives you options both inside and outside the box.

Regarding Real Madrid their game is heavily skewed towards crosses. Even this year they attempted over 900 crosses of which on 200 odd found a man compared to Barca’s 400 attempted crosses of which 90 odd were successful.

My battery is flat. I’ll respond in detail tomorrow.

 

[Joan]

Exactly when Messi lose his pace, his one and only strength is as a false 9, there's simply no way around it. He needs pace from other players for him to execute his creativity, not players like Suarez who struggle to get past the defenders when Messi drops deep occassionally. Messi is the heart of attacks, counter attacks even, something even Real Madrid lacks terribly, when Isco fails to play consistently. Messi is an attacking juggernaut that has executed the false 9 so perfectly, it's a no brainer that people try to accomodate players like fking Suarez when really, you should be building a team around Messi.

Why would it be false 9 and only false 9? Look at Messi this season, he's been great not playing as a false 9.

Ok, we need an upgrade on Suarez. I agree. But right now cross him out of the lineup? No way.

Why? It's simple, 1) noone stretching the pitch vertically in the center which leaves space for Messi. 2) no goal-scoring threat other than Messi. I've been discussing that coaches know how to stop false 9 with two Dembeles on the wings.

If you want to play Messi false 9, bring two competent players to accommodate him. Fast, tall, technical and somewhat creative who will shift inside the box. What when Dembele shifts into the box and is man marked before receiving the ball?

That being said, I think many people mistaken the players and manager failed tactics as Messi's false 9 being a catastrophe. Not at all. It's the players who feel the tendency to pass to Messi all the time instead of having their own pace, confidence and talent to make use of spaces, players like Coutinho, Dembele as opposed to players like Suarez. Rakitic did go on his own against Madrid but after that he just fizzled out and Valverde's tactics just restricted so much space and movement for Messi's false 9 to even work.

So, when it works it's up to Messi and the team, but when it doesn't it's not up to coaches like Mourinho figuring it out but to us not executing it well enough?

OK. Could you explain a situation?

You have a 4-2-3-1 playing against us.

Messi can't break through the middle but succeeds sending the ball on the wing to Dembele. What does he do then?

He can't cross since there's no one free in the box. Messi is man marked, zone 14 is congested. What then?

 

[Joan]

No centre forward is a constant presence in the box. That ship has sailed a long time ago. Messi gives you options both inside and outside the box.

Regarding Real Madrid their game is heavily skewed towards crosses. Even this year they attempted over 900 crosses of which on 200 odd found a man compared to Barca’s 400 attempted crosses of which 90 odd were successful.

My battery is flat. I’ll respond in detail tomorrow.

Ok, won't go on now. See you.

I'll respond to this tomorrow.

 

[Kingkongkong]

He’s going to have his first child soon, i dont know if he’s ready to leave yet

 

[Co0ter]

How many times does Griezmann play as a wide winger for AM though? He hasn't consistently played that position since like Real Sociedade.

If the plan was to buy a winger and have Messi play in the middle, as a striker or false 9 whichever you want, then Griezmann is far from the ideal player to play out wide for us. Most of his creativity and goals come from the middle, no?

 

[Andrew M]

How many times does Griezmann play as a wide winger for AM though? He hasn't consistently played that position since like Real Sociedade.

If the plan was to buy a winger and have Messi play in the middle, as a striker or false 9 whichever you want, then Griezmann is far from the ideal player to play out wide for us. Most of his creativity and goals come from the middle, no?

He will succeed Suarez eventually. For 100 million it's a no brainer

 

[LosBlancos]

Seems like he is only being linked to RM to annoy Barca. Given the needs we have, makes zero sense for him, albeit a very good player, to be a priority.

 

[Trickykid]

It's really odd how the general Barcaforum perception of Eriksen has switched from meh, decent player, but nothing special to suddenly omg, world class - don't let him slip away! over the course of a season - especially so because his level has been more or less consistent over the last 2, perhaps even 3 seasons. If anything, his level has followed a natural trajectory.

While a lot of people underrated him before, he's now equally overrated. Don't get me wrong, I love Eriksen and have followed him closely ever since he made his debut at Ajax, and I have no doubt that he could play here. Would he be an instant saviour and the solution to all of our midfield problems, though? No, he would not. Tottenham's play revolves so much around Eriksen where he gets to start and end attacks at his own leisure while being shielded by 10 tons of muscle in Dembele, Wanyama and Dier at times - it's a luxury he would never enjoy here. Yes, he's an admirably hard worker and his end product is stellar, and he can orchestrate the game at a high level, but he will need freedom of attack which he'd never get here with Coutinho and of course especially Messi in the team. Play him a bit deeper in midfield and you would lose out on a lot of what Eriksen really is about. It's a high ceiling, I know, but his ball retention isn't close to the likes of Iniesta, Verratti or Thiago either if you played him as a 6 or 8.

All in all, yes he could slot into our team, but I don't think he would be the solution and with his fee in mind, I would much rather take a gamble on Thiago, despite his glass legs - he just fits the bill better in my eyes.