21 - Frenkie de Jong

[fergus90]

Reckon we would be after Zubimendi if he was French, had 1 cap and played for Lens?

Or would he be signing for Crystal Palace.

Definitely not.

I'd like De Jong to stay, he is a good asset against tired legs when he can advance with the ball. He's good at evading challenges and advancing with the ball.

A DM he is not, but he's certainly a capable CM. The problem is and has been said many times, that his salary and his importance to the manager don't align.

 

[malvolio]

Sorry but in what way did Pedri have a bigger role last night? Both were fine.

For me, Pedri has been perhaps our best player this season and Frenkie hasn't shown enough, but last night, both were fine, neither better or worse than fine.

I hate these obviously ready-made opinions after each game. People watching each player through a different pair of glasses. Same with people calling Ter Stegen's entire performance bad because of one doubtful action. Just looking for evidence to support the already formed evaluation.

Go and rewatch the game. We lacked control in midfield, Plzen carved us open several times, FDJ was again running around the box. Also had mistakes in positioning himself or losing his man when Plzen had that chance later in second half.

It was fine because score overall was fine and Plzen didn't score more. Otherwise he would have been very bad vs a good opponent.

 

[CanadianCanadian]

Bingo. He just isn't disciplined enough to play defensively in a single pivot that we have been using for decades. We make jokes about Griezmann being called Cardiomann, but Frenkie really is like a dutch golden retriever sometimes. While players like Pedri and Gavi have exploded in the last season or two. Frenkie feels like he has stagnated compared to them while getting very generous minutes.

I'm saying this because I want him to do well. But this is coming onto the 3rd year and if he doesn't assert himself as an undisputed starter I would not lose sleep with him moving on elsewhere

 

[Kul_z]

Go and rewatch the game. We lacked control in midfield, Plzen carved us open several times, FDJ was again running around the box. Also had mistakes in positioning himself or losing his man when Plzen had that chance later in second half.

It was fine because score overall was fine and Plzen didn't score more. Otherwise he would have been very bad vs a good opponent.

Like your logic, still waiting to be that open and aware about ancient one's performances, where in every game we are 'carved open' at least 'several' times but that its normal, or like zidane said that he 'gets dispossesed couple of times at dm, so what' . At dm lmao.

 

[Rory]

Watch how he's in tune with his teammates movements. Constantly moving into positions to allow the person on the ball more space to operate. Or to free up the next person to receive the ball. Too much of our game revolves around keeping possession in quite a stale way. These are the moments he doesn't look as good. He can mostly only give the obvious pass so when he gets the ball in these stale moments he looks unambitious and like anyone could take his place. When we pick up the pace somewhat he looks much better

 

[BusiTheKing]

Go and rewatch the game. We lacked control in midfield, Plzen carved us open several times, FDJ was again running around the box. Also had mistakes in positioning himself or losing his man when Plzen had that chance later in second half.

It was fine because score overall was fine and Plzen didn't score more. Otherwise he would have been very bad vs a good opponent.

right, and watch Pedri in the build up to their goal: https://streamff.com/v/98338c

First he stops tracking the man on the wing to lunge at the ball carrier who was getting closed down anyways, fails to get the ball. First mistake.

Second action, Pedri approaches the ball carrier, who cuts past him, putting Pedri on his butt. Second mistake.

Pedri is now our closest man to their open winger who ends up delivering the cross. Pedri ignores him and walks in the other direction. Even though it's not his position, you can't just leave a man that open. Third mistake.

 

[malvolio]

right, and watch Pedri in the build up to their goal: https://streamff.com/v/98338c

First he stops tracking the man on the wing to lunge at the ball carrier who was getting closed down anyways, fails to get the ball. First mistake.

Second action, Pedri approaches the ball carrier, who cuts past him, putting Pedri on his butt. Second mistake.

Pedri is now our closest man to their open winger who ends up delivering the cross. Pedri ignores him and walks in the other direction. Even though it's not his position, you can't just leave a man that open. Third mistake.

All three of our midfielders got shafted on the goal buildup.

1. Pedri you already pointed out.

2. FDJ was marking no one and then failed to intercept the No 88 guy. Further strolling around not doing anything, basically watching how the attack unfolded.

3. Kessie failed to intercept pass from No 88 guy and then didn't track/tackle the other guy + missed the cross from which they scored.

 

[BusiTheKing]

a player having poor positioning is a real issue, but very often these claims are just tossed around as though they magically validate any criticism. of course it's very subjective unless you wanna go nuts in ms paint and even then it's easy to manipulate.

i thinkt the claim that we lacked control in midfield yesterday, though, has to fall beyond what i would consider a grey area. that's objectively wrong

 

[BusiTheKing]

All three of our midfielders got shafted on the goal buildup.

1. Pedri you already pointed out.

2. FDJ was marking no one and then failed to intercept the No 88 guy. Further strolling around not doing anything, basically watching how the attack unfolded.

3. Kessie failed to intercept pass from No 88 guy and then didn't track/tackle the other guy + missed the cross from which they scored.

lol are you fucking serious?

 

[malvolio]

lol are you fucking serious?

Are you blind?

 

[Porque]

Maybe if Frenkie had a solid 1500mins+ at DMC in a season we could judge better if he has the discipline for the position or not.

Right now he doesn't, but that's mainly because he has a broader skillset than simply being a DMC. I would believe that if he knew, for example, he was playing this position week-in week-out that he would both learn and be relaxed enough to be selective on his progressive moments/movements. Right now it is as if he is dangled a carrot and wants to show everything he has to offer in the position to the extent of being overzealous.

As others have said, in the small sample of games that Busquets doesn't play, the results do not get inferior. That would be reason enough to give a prolonged test period (right now that's Frenkie) to someone given Busquets age and imminent departure.

 

[jamrock]

That sample size would make more sense if each time he has played in that position, he wasn't either the worst player on the pitch (R.S) or the worst midfielder (yesterday).

So we are winning inspire of him, not because of him, xavi sees this, which explains why he's always back on the bench the next game.

He's been here 3 seasons playing at either CM or DM, he's had enough time to adapt and understand what is being asked of him.

Kessie played 1 full 90 and already shows he understands the positional play xavi has been begging Frankie to understand no matter what position he plays in for 12 months.

That fact that we have to keep making execuses for a 25 year old, that should be the first name on the midfield sheet says it all.

But we will always have real Madrid & Napoli.

 

[BusiTheKing]

Are you blind?

you're obviously being completely ridiculous in suggesting that the midfield players share the an equal degree of blame in that situation.

Could Frenkie and Kessie have done more? I guess. You can always do more. Every one of our 11 players could have done more. But that is not the same as one player committing not one, not two, but three clear and obvious mistakes which lead directly to the goal.

 

[iniestaGOAT]

There is no point criticizing this guy. He is hopeless

I give up

 

[malvolio]

you're obviously being completely ridiculous in suggesting that the midfield players share the an equal degree of blame in that situation.

Could Frenkie and Kessie have done more? I guess. You can always do more. Every one of our 11 players could have done more. But that is not the same as one player committing not one, not two, but three clear and obvious mistakes which lead directly to the goal.

Mate, I was just pointing out the mistakes that lead to that goal. You want to make it all about Pedri when he is not a DM and the other two(more defensive minded) midfielders also failed to stop the attack.

Also, where was the RB there and what was Pedri doing in that position?

FDJ was running around chasing shadows, with a speed like he went for a jog in the park. If Busquets was there instead of FDJ, he would have been crucified in here.

80M transfer fee + 80M in salary player, in his 4th season here and looking worse than ever.