unknowngenius10
Member
oh my fault
Since you got most of the things in your comment "right,' I thought it was directed towards me.
10 - Lionel Messi - v2
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oh my fault
Since you got most of the things in your comment "right,' I thought it was directed towards me.
J
jiopi
Guest
This guy is something else.Messi has better goal ratio against Madrid than Cronaldo against Barcelona. Not only that but Messi is all-time Clasico goal scorer, and assister. Cronaldo have yet to give an assists against Barcelona. Not only that, but Madrid's defense is like completely different level than Barcelona's. The fact that Cronaldo has average more Clasico goals per season, is because El Clasico has been played more lately than previously.
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J
jiopi
Guest
Some outside foot passing, short lob, long pass and through ball
raskolnikov
Well-known member
I agree, I do wonder though how other players would do in his position at current Real, its perfect for him. I feel Henry would do extremely well, but im biased and cant know for sure of course.
Cristiano will probably end up with 600 career goals, does that make him better than Van Basten or Ronaldo?
He us better than Figo for example or Raul of course.
unknowngenius10
Member
Messi has better goal ratio against Madrid than Cronaldo against Barcelona. Not only that but Messi is all-time Clasico goal scorer, and assister. Cronaldo have yet to give an assists against Barcelona. Not only that, but Madrid's defense is like completely different level than Barcelona's. The fact that Cronaldo has average more Clasico goals per season, is because El Clasico has been played more lately than previously.
ok, let's go for parts.
You claim that Messi has a better goal ratio against madrid than Cristiano against Barcelona ( which might be true.. links please?) but I don't think that's the best way to judge these players. For Instance, Since Cristiano arrived in 2009, 18 clasicos have been played ( counting all competitions) Messi has scored 12 goals and Cristiano has scored 12 goals as well. I think you have to give Cristiano credit b.c by the time he came, messi had been used to playing in la liga and against madrid for years. Messi all time goal scorer? I don't doubt it! but you can't really judge Cristiano by messi being top scorer since Cristiano has played less clasicos than Messi. There is only a 6 goal difference between them and that's not too bad if you consider Cristiano has played less clasicos. Madrid's defense at a complete different level? Yes, but messi had it easier than cristiano for a few years by being surrounded by the 'best team ever" as many have described Pep's barca.
You guys be the judge.
I'm not saying Cristiano is better than Messi, but their numbers are the same for games played and goals scored against each other in los clasicos.
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I
instinct
Guest
I hope he will get enough rest to be fit for the coming season!
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jiopi
Guest
Messi is completely different level in scoring, less than 50% of his goals are directly assisted (meaning no participation in build up), where as Cronaldo's goals about 75% are directly assisted, meaning Cronaldo needs more service. That's really not a surprise because he's much closer to traditional striker than Messi. The past 4 years in league, less tap-ins, less penalties, Messi has scored 15 goals more, with 40% less shots per goal.
Here's something I posted this earlier:
Against big clubs in 2011 (old list), Barca, Madrid, Valencia, Sevilla, ManU, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Inter, Milan, Roma, Bayern.
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footyfan
Calma, calma
It's hard to tell IMO. By way of comparison, here are some stats for La Liga seasons of Ronaldo and Cristiano Ronaldo:
Ronaldo 96-97 : Goals per Game - 0.92----Average Goals per Game in a La Liga match - 2.75
Ronaldo 02-03 : Goals per Game - 0.74----Average Goals per Game in a La Liga match - 2.67
Ronaldo 03-04 : Goals per Game - 0.75----Average Goals per Game in a La Liga match - 2.67
Ronaldo 04/05 : Goals per Game - 0.62----Average Goals per Game in a La Liga match - 2.58
Ronaldo 05/06 : Goals per Game - 0.61----Average Goals per Game in a La Liga match - 2.46
Cristiano 09/10 : Goals per Game - 0.90----Average Goals per Game in a La Liga match - 2.71
Cristiano 10/11 : Goals per Game - 1.18----Average Goals per Game in a La Liga match - 2.74
Cristiano 11/12 : Goals per Game - 1.21----Average Goals per Game in a La Liga match - 2.76
Cristiano 12/13 : Goals per Game - 1.00----Average Goals per Game in a La Liga match - 2.87
Average Goals per Game in a La Liga match is a rough estimate of how good the teams are defensively or alternatively, how attacking minded teams are within the league. Clearly, the average La Liga game during Cristiano's time was a bit more high scoring. However, Cristiano's goal per game ratio is much higher than Ronaldo's. (Compare Ronaldo 02/03 and 03/04 vs Cristiano's 10/11 and 11/12 - the average goals per game only differs by 0.1 while the personal stats differ by approx. 0.45). Statistically, Cristiano's worst season in La Liga (09/10) is almost identical to Ronaldo's best season in La Liga (96/97).
While this is a really crude way of estimating, it atleast debunks a little bit of the myth that La Liga is *much* worse defensively during these times (on average). On the other hand, Real Madrid scored a lot more goals (as a percentage of La Liga goals) during Cristiano's time (~12%) than Ronaldo's (~7%). So, even though the defending was not too much worse in La Liga (if it was, the other 18 teams would also likely score a lot of goals on each other and raise the average goals per match ratio), Madrid (and also Barcelona) score a lot more. Which implies that Madrid and Barcelona are currently attacking much better or are much more clinical than teams before.
It's likely that a big reason for them scoring so much is the quality of their attackers, like Cristiano and Messi. Another big reason, I feel, is that games are at a much higher level tactically nowadays compared to before. Teams have a definite strategy for all situations, while in previous times, it was a lot easier to really shine individually. As such, games were more even because teams were a bit more disjointed. Today, each player has a very specific role to play (for eg. Cristiano is the primary goal-getter of the team) and as such the primary statistics (like goals and assists) are much more biased towards the forwards. This could imply that Cristiano is simply a stat-padder when compared to Ronaldo and that certainly is an alternative viewpoint. However, it's hard to conclusively argue that one players is a better goal-scorer because the fact is that both ARE/WERE scoring goals.
It must be noted though that all this while, Ronaldo has played as an out-and-out striker, while Cristiano spends atleast 1/3 of the game on the wings.
This long post is not to argue that Cristiano is a better forward than Ronaldo (statistically he is - atleast in La Liga and probably in CL too), but just to bring some perspective. The olden days and legends are always romanticized a bit irrationally.
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CatalinR10
Senior Member
When does his game start ?
CatalinR10
Senior Member
Not really , especially compared with Xavi. In the 2008-2010 period , everytime I watched Xavi play , he left me breathless. Now he declined very much and doesn't show the vision that he once had. Sure , he maintains the momentum in the midfield but that's about it.
Semi-Neutral
Sir Alupp Heynrguson
J
jiopi
Guest
People don't forget it because it most certainly isn't.
La Liga 09-13 Messi - Xavi - Iniesta
Assists 56 - 36 - 33
Through balls 129 - 84 - 73
Key passes 270 - 293 - 174
CatalinR10
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