Barcilliant
Senior Member
Lucho and Pep were both high profile, Cruyff and Rijkaard to an extent. I believe in a coach with a big personality who is low profile.
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Lucho and Pep were both high profile, Cruyff and Rijkaard to an extent. I believe in a coach with a big personality who is low profile.
Our former backup keeper Julen Lopetegui did a decent Job with Porto and is now coaching Spain.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Wikipedia:
"Lopetegui returned to club duties on 6 May 2014, being appointed at Portugal's FC Porto. He signed seven Spanish players to the club that summer.
In his first season at the Estádio do Dragão, with the club's biggest budget ever, Lopetegui led them to the quarter-finals of the UEFA Champions League, where they equalized the club's biggest defeat in European competitions (6–1 against AEK Athens FC) and suffered their biggest defeat in the competition (6–1 against FC Bayern Munich). He failed to conquer any silverware, contributing to the biggest hiatus (two years) during Jorge Nuno Pinto da Costa's presidency.
On 8 January 2016, after a 1–3 home loss to C.S. Marítimo in the Taça da Liga, as Porto had already been eliminated from the Champions League and was ranked third in the domestic league after an away loss and a home draw, Lopetegui was relieved of his duties, being replaced by Rui Barros. One week later, the club announced that it had terminated the former's contract unilaterally."
** That was in Porto, a team who won 9 out 12 national titles in the last 12 years, before Lopetegui.
Basically, he came into a strongest team in Portugal (their Barca, let's say), got the highest budget ever and won nothing.
Till now, he won zero titles with a club.
So, there are some coaches out there who were a former goalkeepers.
But only Italian Dino Zoff and Usa's coach won a couple of trophies.
All other former goalkeepers were horrible to average at best.
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DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
We were total minnow-killers that season. It's hard to claim that our success in 12/13 was anything more than carried momentum from the Guardiola era and Messi's goalscoring prime. Mou's RM imploded pretty badly and we still lost to them in the league, CDR, and the Supercup. We were shite against a very poor AC Milan side in the first leg and, though our comeback was spectacular, our opponents were nothing special. After that we barely scraped by PSG, and then got catastrophically humiliated by Bayern. Our performances in big games that season were ridiculously underwhelming.
Of course, Tito's illness certainly played a part in that. We can't really gauge how much of a difference it made though as even prior to that our tactics were the same/stale and we had no big game success in the first half of 12/13 either in the sample space of matches we played. The team clearly had a worse 2nd half of the season due to the circumstances, but I'd say we were headed towards getting thoroughly exposed either way. I doubt we would've taken a 7-0 level of punishment, but I'm pretty confident that the 12/13 team was not in a position to truly challenge for all trophies and I think we'd have gotten eliminated by Bayern in the CL and RM in the CDR even if Tito wasn't forced to leave for treatment. Memories like Song at CB, Thiago getting benched for an injured Xavi, 2nd half Cesc, and Pedro/Alexis being mostly shite help paint the reality of what 12/13 was. We often destroyed smaller teams but didn't compete well against bigger challenges. It is a fact that we won the league with a record number of points but that is among the only good things I can say about that season as a whole.
I'm really skeptical about the Unzue experiment. It could turn out alright but speaking for myself and likely many others, I'm going in with 0 expectations or optimism.
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FlaFCB
Guest
A fight with the liverpool bench and staff now too.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Goalkeepers vs field players 1:10 (out of 11 players).
In theory, that means that 1 out of 11 coaches could be a GK.
Since 2000, Real had 14 coaches.
Barca had 10 coaches.
Bayern had xx coaches.
Juventus had xx coaches.
xx coaches won La liga since 2000'.
xx coaches won a CL since 2000'.
xx coaches won La liga, EPL, Bundesliga, Seria A, French league 1 since 2000'.
That is a sample of probably 50-100 coaches when you put it that way:
1. coaches who coached top team (Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve, Man Utd, Chelsea)
2. coaches who won league championships in top5 countries
3. coaches who won a CL since 2000'
I didn't checked all of then, but from my memory, I don't remember any goalkeepers here under points 1, 2 or 3 (from above).
So, yes, I know that majority of coaches will be former field players since there is 10:1 ratio in field players vs Gks.
But even then, out of 100 coaches (in my criteria from above), you would expect around 8-9-10 former Gks (out of 100 coaches in total) on that list, if this would have been just "a number's game" and if we don't see former Gks coach big teams ONLY because there is 10 times more field players.
In short:
1. yes, there is 10x times more field players versus former goalkeepers among coaches
2. but still, field players, especially midfielders and attackers have an advantage in being future coaches since they have actually lived and played as midfielders/attackers for 20 years and they know majority of tactical tricks in the book from first hand, unlike goalkeepers.
So, when an opponent presses you, a defensive midfielder/midfielder will know from first hand 10-20 ways how to neutralize that pressure.
A Gk will surely know some tricks, since he listened a coach in a locker-room plus he was on a field in those days, but still...
Imagine 20 years from now.
Would you rather give a chance and have more faith that he will lift our team to glory:
1. a future coach Mats
2. a future coach Pique/Masch/Umtiti
3. a future coach Xavi/Busquets
So, yes, I personally have more faith in midfielders compared even with defenders, even though there was a lot of good coaches who were former defenders.
I am not implying that the best dribbler (for example Ronaldinho) will be the best coach.
But, imo, with Guardiola as a player, you could have seen that a guy is Einstein even as a player and that he had insane (tactical) computer in his brain.
He wasn't THAT much technically gifted, but his understanding of a game and tactics was always superb.
Lucho, on the other hand, as a player, was always a fighter and a crazy runner, who relied more on emotions/heart/stamina than on IQ and understanding of tactics.
He played more with his heart than with his head. Imo, he is quite similar as a coach also (the same as how Pep is also similar to himself as a player).
Rijkaard was a defensive midfielder at AC Milan in late 80s and 90s, when Seria A was the best league in the world and where tactics were the most important part of a game.
So, if he played as a brain (defensive midfielder) in that league for a few years, he surely had more "first hand" experience about tactics, defending, how to press and how to neutralize opponent's pressure, how to positionally perfectly defend against counters, how to outplay opponent and how to get outplayed by opponent, than his teammate who was a GK in those years.
So, imo, there is some relation between:
1. player's position during a footballing career
2. player's/coach's general IQ as a person and as a player
Just one analogy: we all know Alexis Sanchez and how he played while he was here and about his low IQ.
Now, imagine him as a coach in 10-20 years.
Would you rather have midfielder Xavi or a Gk Mats, plus again, an Einstein on a field (Xavi) or Alexis, who was never a too bright guy.
I would pick Xavi in both cases, that is a no brainer.
Of course, everything written above is not set in stone and there are lots of examples of a guy being a brave lion as a player, and now playing as a chicken as a coach.
Or a guy playing attractive football as a player and now playing like Koeman as a coach (and vice versa).
But in general, imo and stats would probably backed me up if I digged deeper: if you go with a midfielder/attacker + a smart former player + who has some coaching experience and some nice results behind him = your chances of getting a good coach will grow a lot.
Add here: Barca's DNA and similar...
For the end, I would always go with a former defensive midfielder/midfielder as my favorite position (for a future coach) in terms of tactics, especially compared with former goalkeepers.
Here is one of our former coaches, also a former defensive midfielder (the same as Pep):
Lelouch vi Britannia
Banned
Umm... Barca board? There's a guy called Jorge Sampaoli. I don't see how they could see the Unzue experiment as a better idea.
Thank you. I keep trying to tell people this but they're blinded by the 100 point league win.
About how we would have been if not for Tito's illness, see the 2nd leg of the supercup. Where RM could have scored about 10 goals but it miraculously managed to end with only a 2-1 victory for them. Hell we needed some very narrow victories against minnows to pull ahead in La Liga when RM imploded. We weren't even that good against them, just managed to get consistent results. IMHO, we were slightly better under Tata, at least in tougher games.
Really, Sampaoli's the obvious choice here. I don't get why we're completely ignoring him.
Thank you. I keep trying to tell people this but they're blinded by the 100 point league win.
About how we would have been if not for Tito's illness, see the 2nd leg of the supercup. Where RM could have scored about 10 goals but it miraculously managed to end with only a 2-1 victory for them. Hell we needed some very narrow victories against minnows to pull ahead in La Liga when RM imploded. We weren't even that good against them, just managed to get consistent results. IMHO, we were slightly better under Tata, at least in tougher games.
Really, Sampaoli's the obvious choice here. I don't get why we're completely ignoring him.
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FlaFCB
Guest
Barça dna and experience requirements. It's a shame, but they won't risk it with Sampaoli.
Lelouch vi Britannia
Banned
Didn't seem to be a problem when they hired Tata.
Also
if the board thinks Sampaoli would be a greater risk than Unzue
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FlaFCB
Guest
Didn't seem to be a problem when they hired Tata.
Also
Tata is the problem, actually. They went for someone with no Barça dna, and Tata happened. That's why they'll stick with Unzue
Lelouch vi Britannia
Banned
Tata is the problem, actually. They went for someone with no Barça dna, and Tata happened. That's why they'll stick with Unzue
>Hire someone with Barca DNA and no experience just because he was the assistant coach under Pep
>Get 7-0'd
>Hire someone with no Barca DNA and no experience
>Go trophyless
>Clearly the problem is no Barca DNA
How about trying to get Maurizio Pochettini? After 3 years of amazing progress with the Tottenham Hotspurs, this Argentinian coach may be ready to take the next step and come to Barcelona. In his active career he played as CB, so he may be able to improve the defensive qualities of Barça. His emphasis on teamwork and focus on young, home-grown players should be desirable qualities. Another good thing is his abilty to speak both Spanish and English.
He may be reluctant to leave his current job, but Messi and Mascherano should be able to convince him.
He may be reluctant to leave his current job, but Messi and Mascherano should be able to convince him.
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