Real Madrid (old thread)

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ricknattery

New member
Raul is definitely a controversial player. He had what it takes to be in Madrid pobably till 2003-2004, then he should have moved to some other place or accepted a rol as a sub, that's the criticism he receives from madridistas(the anti-raulistas ones). He had character on the field, he ran like nobody, he trained hard and all of that. The criticism comes from him wanting to stay as a starter for way longer than he deserved. That's all. I don't wanna keep bringing more into this discussion. It was just my opinion and you can't deny there are many many madridistas who think the same way

@beast
I read Sid's article and he recognizes the same thing I'm saying: there are madridistas who think he should have left few years before he actually did it. Thanks Raul for all you did for RM, but you dont have what it takes to be in Madrid this past few years. That is all
 
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Beast

The Observer
i don't disagree with the above post i agree with it . but it's also different than your other posts which i don't disagree with especially his record as a goal scorer from a non CF position
he should have moved to the sub bench when he was off form plus many other out of the pitch incidents mainly the leadership
 

ricknattery

New member
i don't disagree with the above post i agree with it . but it's also different than your other posts which i don't disagree with especially his record as a goal scorer from a non CF position
he should have moved to the sub bench when he was off form plus many other out of the pitch incidents mainly the leadership

Ok, i'm not claiming to have the truth always. Raul was class during his first years in RM. He is definitely in history. Probably all of the criticism he has gotten is because for some time it seemed like he was a starter by decree and for the campaign that most of Madrid press did in his favour and against Luis Aragones
I have nothing against RM fans, I'm against their media and people who believe in it
 

Raed

Dr. Raed St. Claire
Your point changed along the discussion and while I saw where you were going I am kind of lost.

Raul's statistics are not as prolific as his team mates that is a given but it was never celebrated to begin with. His antics of the field were questionable and the fans were furious with him for a long period of time during the latter period of the galactico era which is also given. His popularity diminished as the seasons passed. The polls used to score over 70 and 80 percent in favor of him staying but reached a mere 40-50%. Pretty low for a Madrid legend towards the end of his career, however, that was purely on a footballing basis.

You say he is over rated but was he actually? I mean when did he ever win the player of the year award? His only individual awards were given in the Champions League for being top scorer and being the top forward. Decent awards, pretty deserved for being the first player to ever score in two finals, only matched by Eto'o.

You are looking at Raul from the wrong point of view mate. Name one informed Madridista who would call Raul our number 9. No one. He simply never was, and the times he did play as a lone striker he was gobshite and never succeeded. Unfortunately, we have had coaches who did play him there and for long periods of time.

It was Valdano who brought him into the first team as a 17 year old to play behind the strikers and Capello who used him as an LWF. His link up and his ability to score crucial goals (vs loads of goals) is what illuminated his career. He was known for that and he is celebrated for that.

Not a single person ever boasted about Raul's career statistics because they meant nothing for the best of career, although for a second striker they were pretty good. A near fifty percent for a second striker is excellent. Players like Del Pierro have an average of around .42, and he played a similar role to Raul. Ronaldinho's career best is around .48 with a high scoring Barcelona (a season where he was the only goal scorer boosted his average too), Totti is around .42 too, perhaps only Tevez has a high ratio at City, Droga has a poor record before he turned a real number 9, what about Anelka? Claudio Lopez, Luis Garcia, Aguero, Mista, etc...FREAKIN BUTRAGUENO did not have a better record for god's sake! Tell me he is not a legend.

The only two players who are better than him in terms of statistics for a certain period of time are Roberto Baggio and Bebeto.

In short, his statistics are not worse than other legends in the game, nor are they better. He was involved heavily in club success and his trophy cabinet is matched by only very few elites. He is a Madrid legend and he served the club and his duty as a team player since he was 17 through 26. Hardly four years as you mention. His capabilities as a player were limited and for that he never won a Ballon d'or and rightfully so. He was known for being intelligent on the field and that is not something you can take away from him and you will never be able to. Not with statistics not with any fancy schmancy powerpoint or videos from some shady Madridista. Raul's behavior off the field since the age of 26 were shady as fuck but sorry, we are not Barcelona, we do not turn our backs on our club legends!
 

JCCR_FCB

Barcelona, a Cidade Condal
there is a big difference between slamming you for an opinion on a player and making fun of your lack of multilingual skills , the man is trying to communicate with all of us and i appreciate his sincere efforts he is not obliged to do so and i respect him for that , it's not easy translating everything you want to say knowing it may come out the wrong way

I'm trying to do my best in translation, but sometimes it's difficult try to speak something and we can't find the corrects words for what we want to say... so, the mistakes appears sometimes... that's the only reason... I'm not trying to offending nobody... and I always trying to understand the position of each one...

I know Joao don't bother i just wanted to tell the guys to give you enough space and freedom .. don't bother with anyone we understand what you try to say amigo

Thanks Mate... sorry for any inconvenience... :-(
 
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Abaddon

King of the Bottomless Pit
While it is true that Raul remained too long in the first team, things started going downhill not because he was off form or lost it, but because of the arrival of the fat one. Once that cancer joined the team, it all went downhill pretty fast.
 

Beast

The Observer
Your point changed along the discussion and while I saw where you were going I am kind of lost.

Raul's statistics are not as prolific as his team mates that is a given but it was never celebrated to begin with. His antics of the field were questionable and the fans were furious with him for a long period of time during the latter period of the galactico era which is also given. His popularity diminished as the seasons passed. The polls used to score over 70 and 80 percent in favor of him staying but reached a mere 40-50%. Pretty low for a Madrid legend towards the end of his career, however, that was purely on a footballing basis.

You say he is over rated but was he actually? I mean when did he ever win the player of the year award? His only individual awards were given in the Champions League for being top scorer and being the top forward. Decent awards, pretty deserved for being the first player to ever score in two finals, only matched by Eto'o.

You are looking at Raul from the wrong point of view mate. Name one informed Madridista who would call Raul our number 9. No one. He simply never was, and the times he did play as a lone striker he was gobshite and never succeeded. Unfortunately, we have had coaches who did play him there and for long periods of time.

It was Valdano who brought him into the first team as a 17 year old to play behind the strikers and Capello who used him as an LWF. His link up and his ability to score crucial goals (vs loads of goals) is what illuminated his career. He was known for that and he is celebrated for that.

Not a single person ever boasted about Raul's career statistics because they meant nothing for the best of career, although for a second striker they were pretty good. A near fifty percent for a second striker is excellent. Players like Del Pierro have an average of around .42, and he played a similar role to Raul. Ronaldinho's career best is around .48 with a high scoring Barcelona (a season where he was the only goal scorer boosted his average too), Totti is around .42 too, perhaps only Tevez has a high ratio at City, Droga has a poor record before he turned a real number 9, what about Anelka? Claudio Lopez, Luis Garcia, Aguero, Mista, etc...FREAKIN BUTRAGUENO did not have a better record for god's sake! Tell me he is not a legend.

The only two players who are better than him in terms of statistics for a certain period of time are Roberto Baggio and Bebeto.

In short, his statistics are not worse than other legends in the game, nor are they better. He was involved heavily in club success and his trophy cabinet is matched by only very few elites. He is a Madrid legend and he served the club and his duty as a team player since he was 17 through 26. Hardly four years as you mention. His capabilities as a player were limited and for that he never won a Ballon d'or and rightfully so. He was known for being intelligent on the field and that is not something you can take away from him and you will never be able to. Not with statistics not with any fancy schmancy powerpoint or videos from some shady Madridista. Raul's behavior off the field since the age of 26 were shady as fuck but sorry, we are not Barcelona, we do not turn our backs on our club legends!

very good post Raed although i think he was robbed the year Owen won it.. it should have been Raul easily
nevertheless 6 league titles , 3 Champions league , 4 super cup , 1 UEFA super cup , 2 Inter conti cup plus 2 Pichichi , 2 CL top scorer , 3 in WPOY , 2nd in European footballer of the year ..etc is a lot to show for looking back @ his 16 years of first team service

While it is true that Raul remained too long in the first team, things started going downhill not because he was off form or lost it, but because of the arrival of the fat one. Once that cancer joined the team, it all went downhill pretty fast.

We will never agree on this ;)
 

barcetia

Mikrofonkåt
Your point changed along the discussion and while I saw where you were going I am kind of lost.

Raul's statistics are not as prolific as his team mates that is a given but it was never celebrated to begin with. His antics of the field were questionable and the fans were furious with him for a long period of time during the latter period of the galactico era which is also given. His popularity diminished as the seasons passed. The polls used to score over 70 and 80 percent in favor of him staying but reached a mere 40-50%. Pretty low for a Madrid legend towards the end of his career, however, that was purely on a footballing basis.

You say he is over rated but was he actually? I mean when did he ever win the player of the year award? His only individual awards were given in the Champions League for being top scorer and being the top forward. Decent awards, pretty deserved for being the first player to ever score in two finals, only matched by Eto'o.

You are looking at Raul from the wrong point of view mate. Name one informed Madridista who would call Raul our number 9. No one. He simply never was, and the times he did play as a lone striker he was gobshite and never succeeded. Unfortunately, we have had coaches who did play him there and for long periods of time.

It was Valdano who brought him into the first team as a 17 year old to play behind the strikers and Capello who used him as an LWF. His link up and his ability to score crucial goals (vs loads of goals) is what illuminated his career. He was known for that and he is celebrated for that.

Not a single person ever boasted about Raul's career statistics because they meant nothing for the best of career, although for a second striker they were pretty good. A near fifty percent for a second striker is excellent. Players like Del Pierro have an average of around .42, and he played a similar role to Raul. Ronaldinho's career best is around .48 with a high scoring Barcelona (a season where he was the only goal scorer boosted his average too), Totti is around .42 too, perhaps only Tevez has a high ratio at City, Droga has a poor record before he turned a real number 9, what about Anelka? Claudio Lopez, Luis Garcia, Aguero, Mista, etc...FREAKIN BUTRAGUENO did not have a better record for god's sake! Tell me he is not a legend.

The only two players who are better than him in terms of statistics for a certain period of time are Roberto Baggio and Bebeto.

In short, his statistics are not worse than other legends in the game, nor are they better. He was involved heavily in club success and his trophy cabinet is matched by only very few elites. He is a Madrid legend and he served the club and his duty as a team player since he was 17 through 26. Hardly four years as you mention. His capabilities as a player were limited and for that he never won a Ballon d'or and rightfully so. He was known for being intelligent on the field and that is not something you can take away from him and you will never be able to. Not with statistics not with any fancy schmancy powerpoint or videos from some shady Madridista. Raul's behavior off the field since the age of 26 were shady as fuck but sorry
Good read Raed.
 

Abaddon

King of the Bottomless Pit
His capabilities as a player were limited and for that he never won a Ballon d'or and rightfully so
Not sure about that. I'd take him over Owen in 01 any day.

Raul's behavior off the field since the age of 26 were shady as fuck
Since the age of 26? Seriously? The last couple of years maybe, but not since the age of 26.

Funny how that coincides with the fat one arriving.
 

Poor_Sunyol

In Lucho we trust!
To sum up Raul is very straight forward. In his prime he was one of the best there is, but his prime didn't last as long as his hype and if he hadn't been playing for Madrid, he would have been booted from the national team a lot sooner than he did.
 

Raed

Dr. Raed St. Claire
Not sure about that. I'd take him over Owen in 01 any day.


Since the age of 26? Seriously? The last couple of years maybe, but not since the age of 26.

Funny how that coincides with the fat one arriving.

To be honest, I totally forgot that Owen won it over him but regardless, it is not like I agree with Owen winning the ballon d'or.

26 was a rough estimate from I remember correctly or perhaps it was the last time he has won a league playing a very integral part. Be it Ronaldo or not, his career was taking a sharp turn towards the bottom.
 

Abaddon

King of the Bottomless Pit
Be it Ronaldo or not, his career was taking a sharp turn towards the bottom.
I don't disagree with that. In my opinion, the initial decline was due to Ronaldo's presence, and after that he just got old and burned out on the field.
 
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