Premier League 2018/19

Who will win the league?


  • Total voters
    106

Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
If you look at Pep's Barcelona the closest any team got to completely shutting us down in 4 years was Hiddink's Chelsea in 2009 where we didn't even have a shot on target until Iniesta's screamer and were completely dominated. This shows that teams knew the recipe on how to stop us after less than 1 season into Pep's tenure.

Yes but Pep developed our tactics further after his first year. Obviously he failed with having a physical striker, but after that we saw Messi as F9 more regularly. The new equation for opponents then was to rather stop Messi than stop Barca as a whole. Mourinho suceeded with neutralizing Messi by forcing him to move closer and closer to our back 4.

Imo, any team can't keep the rhythm for more than 2-3 seasons. After that, a certain erosion appears in terms of motivation, injuries, fitness levels, which makes the decline happen. It's not so much that the teams catch up and find you out (although it plays a part too of course), it's not like Liverpool play some sort of insanely advanced stuff that other teams are yet to decipher. They press high, get the ball back in deep 'enemy territory' and have fast players who know how to exploit spaces. It's how they scored 3 of the 4 goals against us. As long as they will keep up their hunger and energy levels, and the other big teams like Barca, Madrid, Juventus and Bayern (let's not even mention former great teams like United, Chelsea who have fallen a lot) will continue to show big flaws, Liverpool will probably win (as in they are clear CL favorites).

Tactics aren't rocket science. Sure everybody knows how Liverpool play, everybody knew Pep's tactics too.
I can't remember seeing Liverpool being tactically undone by the opponents so far. Klopp very rarely loses the tactical battle against the opposition coach. Knowing what makes Liverpool win their games is step 1, step 2 is using that knowledge to your advantage, something no team has done, especially at Anfield.

Them riding a huge success wave also adds to their mentality and while they by far aren't unbeatable, they start every game with the mental edge that they are stronger, faster and better than the opponents, doesn't matter if it's Deeney or Messi on the other side.
I'm curious to see how a bad run of 2-3 games would affect them and if/how they'd get back.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Yes but Pep developed our tactics further after his first year. Obviously he failed with having a physical striker, but after that we saw Messi as F9 more regularly. The new equation for opponents then was to rather stop Messi than stop Barca as a whole. Mourinho suceeded with neutralizing Messi by forcing him to move closer and closer to our back 4.



Tactics aren't rocket science. Sure everybody knows how Liverpool play, everybody knew Pep's tactics too.
I can't remember seeing Liverpool being tactically undone by the opponents so far. Klopp very rarely loses the tactical battle against the opposition coach. Knowing what makes Liverpool win their games is step 1, step 2 is using that knowledge to your advantage, something no team has done, especially at Anfield.

Them riding a huge success wave also adds to their mentality and while they by far aren't unbeatable, they start every game with the mental edge that they are stronger, faster and better than the opponents, doesn't matter if it's Deeney or Messi on the other side.
I'm curious to see how a bad run of 2-3 games would affect them and if/how they'd get back.

Would you say a great team is no longer successful after 3-4 years because the other teams catch up and find these teams out, or are they not as successful post their prime because the things which make them stand out naturally erode with time (since we're all humans and everything we do erodes with time)?

Because that's what about. Imo, by far, it's the second case. The first case appears, but doesn't have that much importance as it's being given. Great teams aren't that great past their prime because they decline, and it doesn't have that much do to with what rivals do. It's the same in every sport. Prime Mike Tyson or Lennox Lewis would knock the fuck out of everyone at heavyweight right now, despite everyone knowing their style. Because they would be better than everyone else.

The single biggest downfall reason of great teams is the decline in hunger and motivation. Only robots can perform an action the same year after year. After you win and you win, you just don't want to win as much as before. That's why the old saying that is harder to keep yourself at the top than to get there is so true. And it's what makes football entertaining.
 
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KingLeo10

Senior Member
Yea, I agree. Liverpool's domination is of the same ilk with Barca's, maybe even more impressive since their team doesn't have all time great players like our team did. It's one thing to dominate with peak Xavi and Iniesta, and another thing to dominate with Henderson and Milner. They consistently play the best football in the world.

But I do think during Pep's Barcelona there were more great teams around. 2009 Chelsea, 2009 United, 2010 Inter, 2010 Bayern, 2011 United were stronger teams than what we have today.

I'll pitch in 2011 RM too. Very strong team that would have beat United in 2011. The Clasico semi-final was the true CL final that season.

2012 Bayern, too. Beat the 100 point RM over one of the best CL semi-finals in memory.

Playing style and emotion (fear) evoked matter a lot.

The consensus 3 greatest club sides are:

Pep's Barca (2 CL, 2 SFs, 3 LL, 1 runner-up at 90 points+)
Sacchi's Milan (2 CL, 1 Serie A)
Total football Ajax (3-peat CL, but impressively they beat dominated Juve and Inter in CL finals back)

RM's 4 CL in 5 years team and 5 in 5 (in the 50s) team don't engender the same fear (maybe I'm biased?) and I don't see other opposition fans (United forums, Milan forums) talking about them with the same awe. That's why winning and winning in style are what really matter.
 
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serghei

Senior Member
I'll pitch in 2011 RM too. Very strong team that would have beat United in 2011. The Clasico semi-final was the true CL final that season.

2012 Bayern, too. Beat the 100 point RM over one of the best CL semi-finals in memory.

Playing style and emotion (fear) evoked matter a lot.

The consensus 3 greatest club sides are:

Pep's Barca (2 CL, 2 SFs, 3 LL, 1 runner-up at 90 points+)
Sacchi's Milan (2 CL, 1 Serie A)
Total football Ajax (3-peat CL, but impressively they beat dominated Juve and Inter in CL finals back)

RM's 4 CL in 5 years team and 5 in 5 (in the 50s) team don't engender the same fear (maybe I'm biased?) and I don't see other opposition fans (United forums, Milan forums) talking about them with the same awe. That's why winning and winning in style are what really matter.

Yea, the point is neither of the big clubs are currently fit to really dominate Liverpool. Barca on Camp Nou is still the best bet, hilariously and despite Valverde. All the big clubs have all sorts of problems, and only Liverpool have managed to really fit everything together into a great team with few obvious weak points.

Sure, any big team can get lucky and knock them out in a tie over 180 mins, but I'm fairly sure Liverpool would beat any team today 6 times out of 10 games.
 
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Newcomer

New member
Don't think so. I have a different view.

If you look at Pep's Barcelona the closest any team got to completely shutting us down in 4 years was Hiddink's Chelsea in 2009 where we didn't even have a shot on target until Iniesta's screamer and were completely dominated. This shows that teams knew the recipe on how to stop us after less than 1 season into Pep's tenure.

Imo, any team can't keep the rhythm for more than 2-3 seasons. After that, a certain erosion appears in terms of motivation, injuries, fitness levels, which makes the decline happen. It's not so much that the teams catch up and find you out (although it plays a part too of course), it's not like Liverpool play some sort of insanely advanced stuff that other teams are yet to decipher. They press high, get the ball back in deep 'enemy territory' and have fast players who know how to exploit spaces. It's how they scored 3 of the 4 goals against us. As long as they will keep up their hunger and energy levels, and the other big teams like Barca, Madrid, Juventus and Bayern (let's not even mention former great teams like United, Chelsea who have fallen a lot) will continue to show big flaws, Liverpool will probably win (as in they are clear CL favorites).

As you see, the other big teams aren't exactly in a great moment. Barca have Messi but crap management from top to bottom, Juve seem old, Madrid don't have Ronaldo so they lost a big part of what made them great, Bayern is barely winning Bundesliga these days (this year they might even miss that), Atletico will fight to even make top 4 in Spain if they carry on like this. PSG are serial bottlers in CL and have a very unstable team mentally, and City seem to have both a bad defense and an attacking line that is super-wasteful (which is asking for trouble in a competition like the CL).

What impresses me most with that Liverpool team is how much energy they are putting in every game from start to end.

Normally, you have to pay for it and the athleticism level drops on second half of the game or during the season. But they manage to keep doing it. This is why they are hard to keep at bay. Despite all the tactics, football still remains a sport where athleticism matters.

Not saying Liverpool is just a team of marathonians though. They have one of the best goalkeeper in the world, a very good attacking trio (the sum of these three players being higher than their individual worth as they are connecting so well with each other), a top class cb, good fullbacks.

I watched some statistics about top teams and Liverpool particularly stood out for the high number and the high accuracy of their long balls. The fullbacks (TAA especially) and also VVD are notably above the rest of the competition in those stats. They are scoring a lot of goals from those long balls across the field.
 

serghei

Senior Member
What impresses me most with that Liverpool team is how much energy they are putting in every game from start to end.

Normally, you have to pay for it and the athleticism level drops on second half of the game or during the season. But they manage to keep doing it. This is why they are hard to keep at bay. Despite all the tactics, football still remains a sport where athleticism matters.

Not saying Liverpool is just a team of marathonians though. They have one of the best goalkeeper in the world, a very good attacking trio (the sum of these three players being higher than their individual worth as they are connecting so well with each other), a top class cb, good fullbacks.

I watched some statistics about top teams and Liverpool particularly stood out for the high number and the high accuracy of their long balls. The fullbacks (TAA especially) and also VVD are notably above the rest of the competition in those stats. They are scoring a lot of goals from those long balls across the field.

Yea, they are super athletic and, dare I say in the spirit of British teams, they are used to running and working hard on the field. Very few primadonnas if any. Everybody carries their weight, including their so-called star players like Salah and Mane.

Their long balls are easily their biggest asset in positional attacks. This is a super strong weapon when you make overloads in one side like Liverpool do. When you overload a side, you basically have two objectives. To obtain numbers in that space and pass your way through, using this superiority. Or, if not possible (or the plan is different), to do quick switches on the opposite wing when more space is available as a result of the overload.

I'm gonna tell you something Gica Popescu, former captain of Barcelona in the 90s, who used to play under Cruyff, spoke about in Romanian media about modern football and tactics and about why Cruyff was a genius of the game far ahead of his time.

Cruyff told the Barcelona players before a game in the Spanish League to press in defense and overload the close range areas around the ball. This meant the opposite wing areas were supposed to be left open, in order for the short and medium range to be covered more intensely.

Giga Popescu and other Barca players were bewildered by this notion, that they should leave players who are traditionally marked to stand free in space. They told Cruyff: "Mister, but we can't do this. What happens when the ball is on our left side and the opponent's right-back or right midfielder makes a long diagonal ball on our right, in the space we leave open? If we leave it open the left-back who goes up in space will cause us real damage".

Cruyff told them: "Trust me, it won't happen, they won't do that, they will almost always try to play short and we will get the ball back because we have the numbers".

The players then said: "But, how do you know, what if it does happen?".

And in the end Cruyff told them: "The opponent doesn't have the player who can pull off that pass consistently, because if they had that player he'd play for us instead". That model of defending is now used by almost every pressing team, from Pep's Barcelona, to Klopp's Dortmund and Liverpool.
 
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AnfieldEd

I am Leg End
Anything can happen in a 2 leg game.

Only needs a 5-10min period out of 180 minutes for a game to completely change and there is numerous teams including Barca who are capable of doing that to any team.
 

Barcilliant

Senior Member
There are many teams in past that would have beaten this Liverpool side. BARCA 2009-12 AND 2015. Bayern 2013, Inter 2010, Real 2017 even Chelsea 2008 - 2009.

Klopp deserves credit for the way he has built the team but the fact is all the major clubs are pretty meh at the moment. We are shit, Madrid teams mediocre. Psg and City are inconsistent. Italian teams including Juve look pedestrian. Bayern have the potential but are inconsistent again.
Best sides in Europe atm are Liverpool, City and then Bayern.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Only prime Barcelona are big favorites to have beaten this Liverpool, because match-up wise, they have the tools to play through Liverpool's pressing. I see it as a 50-50 with all the other teams you listed, great teams nonetheless.

I agree though that, besides Liverpool, there is a void of top top teams. I mean no way Tottenham and Ajax play a CL semis without the big clubs being weak.
 
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Jenks

Senior Member
City have been poor this season compared to the last two. Unless they can get Laporte and Sané back I don't think they going to be part of the conversation. Can you image Bale running at that defence?
 

serghei

Senior Member
City have been poor this season compared to the last two. Unless they can get Laporte and Sané back I don't think they going to be part of the conversation. Can you image Bale running at that defence?

Doubt it. Madrid kind of suffer against teams who are very good on the ball like City are. And the speed of this Madrid is much decreased compared with 3-4 years ago. Unless they play Vinicius and Rodrygo on the wings, which I doubt.

I see it as being very close with 1 goal making the difference.
 

El Gato

Villarato!
A pissed off Bale would ruin this Angelino guy they've brought in. Mendy even more so. Issue with Bale is his form has slumped again, he missed a total sitter last night in the dying minutes while luckily following it up with a great 1st time assist which will keep him in the side. But for him to pose constant danger and score, he really needs to be mad. I can see Zidane dropping him again after the tough run of games is done post mid-January just to annoy him.

We should do well vs City as long as Carvajal doesn't get crushed by Sterling like he has by many other LWs when he had a bad game. Fede has what it takes to make a fool out of Gundogan and Rodri. Fernandinho is also slow AF so if he starts at CB even Benzema can have a field day.
 

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