Pep's Barca 10/11 v Liverpool 18/19 or Bayern 19/20

[KingLeo10]

Madrid 2011 was also a better side IMO than Bayern 19/20 or Pool 18/19.

Prime CR7, Ramos, Pepe, Benzema, Alonso, Di Maria, Marcelo and a lot of other quality players.

 

[Birdy]

We were the most press resistant team in the history, we had 2 great FB who had enough speed to compete with anyone, and same with CB, we had the players to punish a highline defense too.
They didn't have what it takes to punish our weaknesses, nor to stop our strength.

Who did Liverpool in 2019 face?
They finished 2nd in groups stage, tied at points with Napoli.
They beat one of the worst Bayern teams in the decade 3-1
And then Porto
And in the final a Tottenham team that was only there because Ajax and Inter were jokes at the end.
Only respectful opponent were us, and they have beaten us 4-3 and we weren't half the team we played in 2011.
In the league the only team that had pressing they faces were City, 0-0 and 1-2 loss. 1 goal in 1 matches.

Bayern 2020?
A joke of League and cup that had no single good opponent, an easy group stage.
Then they faced Chelsea who had mediocre coach and average season.
Worst Barca in a decade and half, with their worst coach in this century (ok, that is debatable since I know you rate Setien high) .
Lyon!!!
A PSG who had easy draw to final since forever. And even then they didn't dominate the Fench sides.
Which of those teams exactly showed 25% of Barca aggression back then? Which of those were even half good?

1) Your claim in bold is invalid, because you just cannot know that.
That team was the most press resistant of its era, sure.
But you cannot know how they would fare against more advanced version that came out later.

The point I am explaining is that the teams I mention had what it takes to hurt that Barca.
The fact that Pep's Barca struggled against parked buses is irrelevant. It's another issue. And like people above said, it's a problem that can make all kind of teams suffer.

2) The fact that neither Liverpool '19 nor Bayern '20 faced super great opponents in their CL campaign, does not prove anything related to how they would fare against Barca '11.
Neither that they were not that impressive against those opponents.
If it shows something is that Liverpool or Bayern are not so dominating in their era, not so entertaining, maybe that they not beat so widely as that Barca.
But that's a different question.
Again the question is not which side of the three is the best, more entertaining, more dominating.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

Zidane and Ronaldo would get eaten alive by this Bayern. Yes, they would find a lot of spaces behind Flick's Bayern, but as I pointed out in reference to Lyon and PSG, that's not a problem for Bayern because they outscore you.
They even struggled against the washed up versions of Ancelloti's Bayern and Huynckes' Bayern.

I don't get the bias psychology you mention.
It seems to me that most Barcaforum members suffer from emotional bias that does not let them judge impartially.

Pep's Barca is my own favorite team of all time.
But when I make the thought experiment, no way they could cope with the current day pressing machines.

First off, there is an Appeal to Emotion but not an Emotion Bias as you claim

Just go back and rewatch some of these games man and you'll see how easily we dealt with a press. It doesn't really matter how "advanced" it is, no press moves faster than the ball. And you simply do not see the ball in Pep's Barca for at least 2/3rds of the game. You can press like madmen and do it perfectly but if you get passed around every time and ruthless carved apart when our MF or Messi find the space between the lines, it's over.

Like bruv, we aren't the only ones who rate this team and these players so highly. Go watch some HITC Seven videos, he regularly puts Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Dani, Puyol and Pep in the same pedestal we do.

So feel free to keep arguing with everyone else on this forum based purely on your intuitions and perceptions or you can go back, rewatch some of these matches, hear some third opinions and assess maybe why we are all virtually saying the same thing right now

 

[KingLeo10]

Honestly, it's not so much the suggestion that Liverpool 18/19 or Bayern 19/20 could beat Barca 10/11 in a one off game. That's entirely plausible. No team is invincible all the time and luck plays a major part in a one off game. But the suggestion that "no way" could Barca 10/11 deal with today's pressing is arguably the most idiotic take ever on this forum, considering Barca 10/11 were the originators of these tactics and had 4 all time greats + rest world class players in their roster at the same time. Oh and helmed by Guardiola.

 

[serghei]

Yea, odd claim. A one-off can happen, ffs Rubin Kazan put one of the best performances against Pep's Barca on Camp Nou.

And you can make these BBZ-style "evolution" arguments when you compare eras decades apart. 2011 was like 10 years ago. Gegenpressing under Klopp popped up 2 years later, probably inspired by Pep's Barca. Same fucking thing.

 

[serghei]

I don't think Milito was much better than prime Diego Costa tbh, he was a bit overrated too.
Eto against us played more of a tactical game than punishing us as attacker IMO.
Drogba was 34 when he faced us in 2012, he scored 13 goals in 46 games that year, same in 2009 too btw.
Atletico always had that good attacker in their disposal tbf. And I would argue that on the defensive end they were as good as anyone ever.

Don't agree with Costa being as good as Milito or Drogba, talking about big games here. How many goals does Costa have in CL in the big games? Barely remember any significant goal career-wise.

Agree that Atletico in 2014 would've been a tough nut to crack even for Pep's Barca. Defensively, and in terms of aggression, pressure, playing rough, they had these components which were known to bother us and stifle us from creating loads of chances.

Of course, they would've needed mother luck to seriously smile at them on the night, but in a one off, I'd be worried of peak Simeone AM more than current Bayern or current Liverpool. Closest team since 2011 to that tough Chelsea side who gave us hell in 2009.

 

[Birdy]

Obviously anything can happen in an one-off.
I am not talking about one-offs.

To put it in percentages like someone above, I would say Barca 10-11 wins 20%, draws 30%, and loses 50% against Liverpool '19 and Bayern '20.

First off, there is an Appeal to Emotion but not an Emotion Bias as you claim

Just go back and rewatch some of these games man and you'll see how easily we dealt with a press. It doesn't really matter how "advanced" it is, no press moves faster than the ball. And you simply do not see the ball in Pep's Barca for at least 2/3rds of the game. You can press like madmen and do it perfectly but if you get passed around every time and ruthless carved apart when our MF or Messi find the space between the lines, it's over.

Like bruv, we aren't the only ones who rate this team and these players so highly. Go watch some HITC Seven videos, he regularly puts Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Dani, Puyol and Pep in the same pedestal we do.

So feel free to keep arguing with everyone else on this forum based purely on your intuitions and perceptions or you can go back, rewatch some of these matches, hear some third opinions and assess maybe why we are all virtually saying the same thing right now

Where is the emotion?
I said Pep' Barca is my favorite team of all time, and yet I am trying to pass a cold judgment on this, unlike most of you...
The people that rate that team high do not rate it outside its era and historical context.
I don't know why it's hard to communicate that part.

I don't need to watch clips mate, I had watched all games of that Barca obviously, and I remember a lot.
The bold quote of yours shows disrespect to the sport honestly. It does not matter how advanced? Seriously?
So following your logic, it did not matter that Pep came up with that new type of football adapted to the modern needs circa 2009? The fact that it was more advanced played no role?
Only if you think that the an older version, let's say Cryuff's Barca from early 90s would get annihilated against the sides dominating European football around that time.

And on the flip side, If a better verion of Pep's passing game comes around in the future you would say it does not matter how advanced it is?
That's ridiculous.

Think of Cryuff Ajax of the 70s, one of the greatest teams of all time.
Do you think if they were teleported in the future and played -let's say for example - against Juve of mid-90s they would win?
No way..
The evolution of the sport happens for a reason.

Gegenpressing popped up as an answer to Pep's football. And that's why some the most exciting one to one contests have been Klopp's teams Vs Pep's team since then until today.

 

[serghei]

Obviously anything can happen in an one-off.
I am not talking about one-offs.

To put it in percentages like someone above, I would say Barca 10-11 wins 20%, draws 30%, and loses 50% against Liverpool '19 and Bayern '20.

Wow... don't even know how to respond to that.

2011 Barca would lose 50% of the games vs a Liverpool even a much much inferior Barca almost knocked out and beat 3-0 on Camp Nou.

 

[KingLeo10]

Wow... don't even know how to respond to that.

2011 Barca would lose 50% of the games vs a Liverpool even a much much inferior Barca almost knocked out and beat 3-0 on Camp Nou.

This is why I made this thread, man. I don't mind opinions but this one melted my mind and I had to make sure more people didn't think the same.

 

[te amo barca]

Obviously anything can happen in an one-off.
I am not talking about one-offs.

To put it in percentages like someone above, I would say Barca 10-11 wins 20%, draws 30%, and loses 50% against Liverpool '19 and Bayern '20.



Where is the emotion?
I said Pep' Barca is my favorite team of all time, and yet I am trying to pass a cold judgment on this, unlike most of you...
The people that rate that team high do not rate it outside its era and historical context.
I don't know why it's hard to communicate that part.

I don't need to watch clips mate, I had watched all games of that Barca obviously, and I remember a lot.
The bold quote of yours shows disrespect to the sport honestly. It does not matter how advanced? Seriously?
So following your logic, it did not matter that Pep came up with that new type of football adapted to the modern needs circa 2009? The fact that it was more advanced played no role?
Only if you think that the an older version, let's say Cryuff's Barca from early 90s would get annihilated against the sides dominating European football around that time.

And on the flip side, If a better verion of Pep's passing game comes around in the future you would say it does not matter how advanced it is?
That's ridiculous.

Think of Cryuff Ajax of the 70s, one of the greatest teams of all time.
Do you think if they were teleported in the future and played -let's say for example - against Juve of mid-90s they would win?
No way..
The evolution of the sport happens for a reason.

Gegenpressing popped up as an answer to Pep's football. And that's why some the most exciting one to one contests have been Klopp's teams Vs Pep's team since then until today.

Pretty sure that Barca 10-11 would out-xG both Liverpool and Bayern. Checkmate.

 

[JohnN]

Obviously anything can happen in an one-off.
I am not talking about one-offs.

To put it in percentages like someone above, I would say Barca 10-11 wins 20%, draws 30%, and loses 50% against Liverpool '19 and Bayern '20.



Where is the emotion?
I said Pep' Barca is my favorite team of all time, and yet I am trying to pass a cold judgment on this, unlike most of you...
The people that rate that team high do not rate it outside its era and historical context.
I don't know why it's hard to communicate that part.

I don't need to watch clips mate, I had watched all games of that Barca obviously, and I remember a lot.
The bold quote of yours shows disrespect to the sport honestly. It does not matter how advanced? Seriously?
So following your logic, it did not matter that Pep came up with that new type of football adapted to the modern needs circa 2009? The fact that it was more advanced played no role?
Only if you think that the an older version, let's say Cryuff's Barca from early 90s would get annihilated against the sides dominating European football around that time.

And on the flip side, If a better verion of Pep's passing game comes around in the future you would say it does not matter how advanced it is?
That's ridiculous.

Think of Cryuff Ajax of the 70s, one of the greatest teams of all time.
Do you think if they were teleported in the future and played -let's say for example - against Juve of mid-90s they would win?
No way..
The evolution of the sport happens for a reason.

Gegenpressing popped up as an answer to Pep's football. And that's why some the most exciting one to one contests have been Klopp's teams Vs Pep's team since then until today.

Wow.. we would lose 50% of the time vs liverpool..
Shit man, again off those meds.
Why don't you go check the xG stats to give you some perspective or something because football isn't your cup of tea.

 

[Andresito]

Liverpool '19 lost 3-0 to freaking Valverde. Pep's Barca never had those kind of losses.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Liverpool '19 lost 3-0 to freaking Valverde. Pep's Barca never had those kind of losses.

Yeah people are overrating Liverpool, they had just luck that the other teams were crap. Even when they won 4-0 against us we had several good opportunities to score. Real 11/12 / 16/17, Barca 2008-2012, 2015, Bayern 12/13 / 19/20 would have destroyed that Liverpool.

 

[serghei]

Yeah people are overrating Liverpool, they had just luck that the other teams were crap. Even when they won 4-0 against us we had several good opportunities to score. Real 11/12 / 16/17, Barca 2008-2012, 2015, Bayern 12/13 / 19/20 would have destroyed that Liverpool.

Not so sure about Bayern 2019/20 tbh.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Not so sure about Bayern 2019/20 tbh.

I think your doubt is right. They were worse than PSG in final.