Marco Verratti

[Yannik]

You can field 10 dead cats with Kroos and the guy will string a win together. I don't really care, who is faster, who dribbles better or who does more step overs, but I'd have Kroos over anything because that's the type of player that wins World Cups, European Cups, Champions Leagues, Euro Leagues, Dark Souls 3, your mum's phone number, German league, spanish league, premiere league, whatever league, and will go down as a legend of the sport. There's a reason why Madrid and Germany play this good, and that's that bloody midfield.

 

[DonAK]

Kroos won a lot by pulling the strings before Neuer saved them against Algerie

Great player, but come on. He's not more important than Marcelo or Modric in Madrid either.

Not a once in a generation midfielder like the one you're describing. That was Xavi.

Not saying he isn't an important or integral player and World Class, but let's not go OTT.

 

[Zebulun]

Kroos won a lot by pulling the strings before Neuer saved them against Algerie

Great player, but come on. He's not more important than Marcelo or Modric in Madrid either.

Not a once in a generation midfielder like the one you're describing. That was Xavi.

Not saying he isn't an important or integral player and World Class, but let's not go OTT.

i dont think he means he's a once in a generation player, he just means he's just as vital as marcelo in the current madrid. he's very clutch. especially with his crosses

 

[serghei]

Ok? I think a lot of this is irrelevant. Kroos's decision to move from Bayern to RM isn't really self-sacrificial in any way, just moving from one huge juggernaut to another. Backfired? He was guaranteed to start and they had just won La Decima with Ancelotti and were making a number of very smart and forward-thinking transfer moves. No one would ever have said that he's making a hard or potentially wayward choice, or taking a risk for some more satisfying/difficult to achieve glory.

Smart choice, and he definitely doesn't regret it and is probably pretty pleased with what he's won. That doesn't mean that just choosing to play for a wildly successful team makes you a better player. In that case, no player should ever play for any team other than RM/Barca/Bayern or else they can't be world class and it'd be a hit on their individual ability. Why bother even having entire leagues and competitions when every player who is of a world class level should be playing for those teams that can virtually guarantee them success and major trophies? I don't really care that Kroos 'made the choice' for RM as it has little relevance in the debate for who is better. At the end of the day, you simply can't say that Kroos is better at the sport of football than Verratti.

Marco was pretty misguided over the years about PSG. Shouldn't have signed all those extensions, but he genuinely did believe in their project and badly wanted to win the CL with them. It was the wrong choice, but not really one that you can blame him for. Wasn't even for the money, as he isn't getting paid anything special. But to give an honest and fair assessment, it doesn't matter that he got stuck at PSG because he simply is better than Kroos and the circumstances that made him far less successful doesn't change that. We're just talking football here, and Verratti is better at playing football.

I don't think it's irrelevant at all. If you wanna stay only in your personal field of evaluating a player based on his abilities alone who can very well do that, and say about whatever player you like a lot that is world class. I was extending the conversation beyond what X or Y thinks about one football player or another (now that is pure subjectivism). From a more holistic perspective if you may.

And about playing for Madrid/Barca/Bayern etc., the best players, the world class ones, have usually played at the biggest teams. Goes only to strenghten the argument that one of the things which does in fact allow you to develop further as a player is to make the step to a bigger team in your career. It's like that in every sport. Players get better and greater as they advance in their career to a platform that allows them to do more.

Take Busquets and play him in Alaves, and he will be a worse player. Because you are as good of a player as you prove on the field, and not having the chance to exercise your abilty at the highest level consistently, there's no doubt it will weaken that ability. Not only that, but not being part of a group that shares a winning mentality, like the great teams do, will in the end, weaken your fighting spirit as well. and your ambition as well. Now, PSG is not Alaves, but they did show some problems that are associated with a small team mentality.

 

[DonAndres]

You can field 10 dead cats with Kroos and the guy will string a win together. I don't really care, who is faster, who dribbles better or who does more step overs, but I'd have Kroos over anything because that's the type of player that wins World Cups, European Cups, Champions Leagues, Euro Leagues, Dark Souls 3, your mum's phone number, German league, spanish league, premiere league, whatever league, and will go down as a legend of the sport. There's a reason why Madrid and Germany play this good, and that's that bloody midfield.

If you just look at it on paper you'd think Kroos's impact for RM/Germany is at the same level of Xavi for Spain/Barcelona. Pass-dominant ball playing midfielder for the best team and NT in the world. That's the basic conclusion when you establish the false equivalency of Kroos being the common denominator of Bayern's treble, Germany's WC, and RM's back to back CL's.

However, watching actual games you'd see that he's nowhere near as influential, or even the most influential on his own teams. Bayern won the treble not even noticing his absence and were as good or arguably better without him. He's not close to as important as Modric for RM, and far more replaceable than Marcelo/Ronaldo. The closest he's been to the driving force for victory on his team is in the WC with Germany and even then many would say Schweinsteiger was equally important if not more, and that Germany won because of their balance all over the pitch. His footprint on the success of his teams is not that special. There's never been a point in his career where he's one of the most influential players in football and even today he's well behind Thiago/Modric in this respect. 10 dead cats and Kroos stringing a win together? I'd say it's hard for Kroos to do what he does outside of the juggernaut teams that are all-round dominant and that he would definitely be exposed for his limitations to a degree in any team where the overall quality is less and he is meant to be the main man.

 

[Yannik]

Kroos won a lot by pulling the strings before Neuer saved them against Algerie

Great player, but come on. He's not more important than Marcelo or Modric in Madrid either.

Not a once in a generation midfielder like the one you're describing. That was Xavi.

Not saying he isn't an important or integral player and World Class, but let's not go OTT.

What is a once in a generation midfielder? The guy just turned 27 and he certainly is an all time great of german football and is a legitimate choice for 3rd or 4th greatest german footballer of all time if hee keeps this up till retirement. Sure he doesn't dab, dance, skills, isn't brazilian, and his hair is not yet dyed blue, but he simply makes everything look simple. Wether it is playing 60m diagonal balls, or combining out of pressing and strings together 8/10 performances week after week and everything surrounded by him turns to gold.

 

[gasgas]

[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]
So by your logic, the only world class players are players that play for Barcelona and Madrid only or those that have won UCL/worldcup?

So by your logic, Dante,Rakitic, Howedes, Khedira, Mandzukic, Isco, are truly worldclass
but players like Thiago, Hazard, Van Persie, Bonucci, Chiellini, Griezmann, David Silva, Aguerro are not world class? They have not won anything in Europe/with national teams

 

[serghei]

[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]
So by your logic, the only world class players are players that play for Barcelona and Madrid only or those that have won UCL/worldcup?

So by your logic, Dante,Rakitic, Howedes, Khedira, Mandzukic, Isco, are truly worldclass
but players like Thiago, Hazard, Van Persie, Bonucci, Chiellini, Griezmann, David Silva, Aguerro are not world class? They have not won anything in Europe/with national teams

Not at all. I never said that.

Btw, I think playing CL finals is playing at the highest level. David Silva has played a lot of great matches for Spain. Even scored a goal in the Euro 2012 final, among others. Also playing at the highest level. Van Persie played a World Cup final as well. Griezmann played CL finals.

Good job putting in a lot of players who prove a point that playing at the highest level is necessary to be called world class with no restrictions. Never said the reverse is true, i.e. playing at the highest level means you are world class.

 

[springfield]

I believe that when a player that has the ability to be something, but isn't yet, he should not be treated as if he is. Suarez was smart when he moved to Barca. It was a maximization of his potential, which was greater than Liverpool and was limited by that team (with all due respect to Liverpool fans here).

So, yes, he wasn't exactly world class at Liverpool. Even the term, 'world class' defines something which is supposed to be a reference in the world. Suarez' European record before Barca is unimpressive.

I'd call him a player of world class abilty, but not a world class player if we're being exact.

Haha, you can believe your own stories but ask a real PL watcher about Suarez. He was fucking world class and almost dragged Liverpool to a PL win. You don't have to be at a world class team to be a world class player. That's bullshit. And Kroos was at Bayern already awesome while he was still young. But I have a feeling that alot on this forum don't watch many games, or maybe are still pretty young and couldn't watch older games.

 

[serghei]

Haha, you can believe your own stories but ask a real PL watcher about Suarez. He was fucking world class and almost dragged Liverpool to a PL win. You don't have to be at a world class team to be a world class player. That's bullshit. And Kroos was at Bayern already awesome while he was still young.

This may be hard to believe, but the better football is played outside of PL. Mahrez also looked like a world class player, after all, he and Vardy dragged Leicester to a PL win. Btw, not comparing Suarez with these two, before you say anything.

 

[springfield]

This may be hard to believe, but the better football is played outside of PL.

The PL is very difficult to win. It's not like La Liga where a couple of teams battle for the trophy.

Vardy and Mahrez had one extraordinary season. Not the same. And a true football fan knows that Kante was the true star of Leicester.

 

[George_Costanza]

Reading all over twitter Barcelona is ready to offer 70m+ Rakitic for Verratti

Also Milan looking to buy Raki for 40m

 

[Messi983]

Reading all over twitter Barcelona is ready to offer 70m+ Rakitic for Verratti

Also Milan looking to buy Raki for 40m

It's based on Sport (opinion) article and it also includes Mbappe going to PSG for 130m, which is very unlikely to happen because Monaco will prefer to sell him to Madrid or EPL. So in other words, it's just BS.

http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/opinion/operacion-mbappe-verratti-rakitic-6169841

 

[Yannik]

The closest he's been to the driving force for victory on his team is in the WC with Germany and even then many would say Schweinsteiger was equally important if not more, and that Germany won because of their balance all over the pitch..

Ahh yes, the good old "he played in great teams, it wasn't him though". Basically any time there's a thread/conversation about a german midfielder, wether it's Kroos, Khedira, Schweinsteiger, Özil or any german player in general that gets compared to someone else then the general agreement is that he is actually not that great. With all the not-actually-that-greats I wonder who actually were the greats that carried them? We are a footballing nation of meh-okayish players that somehow won a fuckton of games and tournaments because the players on those other positions are equally not-actually-that-greatish and therefor a so-called "balance" exists, which is a magic blue blubble that floats around the pitch and scores goals. Without it, we'd probably be done in group stage.

I mean sure, whenever France, Spain, Italy or Brazil win the WC, then all of their team gets granted knighthood. But how ridiculous would it be if anyone suggested that 3-4 active german players might actually be as good as their titles suggest.

 

[LeeRomeno]

I wonder how many Verratti fanboys have actually seen him play on regular bases? Hype is ridiculous for a player who plays in league majority of you don't follow. Just don't get it.
I have a few French league fans as friends and although all say he is quality player noone is placing him among top midfielders in the world.
He has his issues,injured quite a bit, does stupid things in important games and can dissapear. Also i do not think he is mentally too strong considering how he has handled himself in this saga.
Kroos has really no serious issues, he is perhaps not really that great defensively, but that is not his purpose anyways.