Luis Enrique

[Richard.H]

I might get flamed for this but guys it's an end of an era just accept it. 90 % of the players in our team have won all prestigious trophies that you could win in the sport. They just don't have the hunger anymore like they did before. It's natural, in any sport actually. RM players will naturally be more hungry than ours since they get absolutely butt***** by us for nearly 4 years straight. That's just utter humiliation in such a higher competition.


You can blame Lucho for this all you want, but if you want a change it will come from a serious change, as in getting rid of most of the old guard. Even bringing Pep back will not fix the pressing/ lack of movement/ etc. I give it 2 years max before this team seriously blows up. However, that's if we don't win any trophies.


It's still very likely for us to win La Liga. We have enough talent in the squad to beat 95 % of la liga teams. RM/Atletico find ways to screw up against those lower la liga teams. Don't expect a CL though. I expect us to get knocked out in QF like last year.










Also, this forum tends to have a witch hunt for certain players. Pique was a good CB once, but not anymore. You guys have seriously extremely high expectations out of these players. Pique has lost his form since 2011. He was exposed many times even when we won the CL that year. However, Pep was the coach and everything was okay in the eyes of most fans here.


Mathieu is a decent player but expecting him to be Abidal mark 2 is really ridiculous and highly disrespectful to Abidal. Abidal was one of the key players of Pep's squad and an absolute beast in both defense and offense.


Rakitic is great for defensive duties but his passing is not in the same league as Iniesta/Xavi and never will be.


Lastly, Xavi getting old has really messed up our midfield. I'm absolutely appalled at how underrated he is by lots of cules and lots of pundits. He was the one who kept the midfield as structured as possible and kept the tiki taka fluid. No, Iniesta can't cover the duties that Xavi had.





In conclusion, Lucho/Tata/Tito, even Pep, can't really change much of these problems. We have to hope La Masia produces some ridiculous talent or we will have to turn into Galacticos Barca and buy world class players for most of our positions.

 

[linetty]

I might get flamed for this but guys it's an end of an era just accept it. 90 % of the players in our team have won all prestigious trophies that you could win in the sport. They just don't have the hunger anymore like they did before. It's natural, in any sport actually. RM players will naturally be more hungry than ours since they get absolutely butt***** by us for nearly 4 years straight. That's just utter humiliation in such a higher competition.


You can blame Lucho for this all you want, but if you want a change it will come from a serious change, as in getting rid of most of the old guard. Even bringing Pep back will not fix the pressing/ lack of movement/ etc. I give it 2 years max before this team seriously blows up. However, that's if we don't win any trophies.


It's still very likely for us to win La Liga. We have enough talent in the squad to beat 95 % of la liga teams. RM/Atletico find ways to screw up against those lower la liga teams. Don't expect a CL though. I expect us to get knocked out in QF like last year.

Why would you get flamed for this? It's 100% true and everyone knows that but some just don't want to believe it.

The squad needs to be refreshed before we can start thinking of getting to the top again.

 

[Ursegor]

Well if the squad would be so much better then he would be an idiot because he doesn't know how to use it.

That's the point. Either he made the squad worse or he has a better squad and is playing worse football with it. Either way it's on him.

He gets the benefit of the doubt though. Maybe he's doing a reverse Tata and sucking in the first half of the season while getting it right in the second. I mean he can't possibly continue to be this shit throughout the entire season, right? RIGHT?

 

[Ursegor]

Also it was evident after just 2 minutes that Barca was going to lose this game. Even after the Neymar goal. No one else seen the ridiculous distance between the lines right from the start? Reminded me of Tito's first Clasico in the Bernabeu in the Supercopa. Was never going to survive this for 90 minutes. Not for a minute did I feel save defensively. Can't understand the "we had it under control until the penaldo" talk. And that's clearly on the coach, although individuals also failed. But spacing between the lines and pressing is on the coach.

 

[Maria]

Also, this forum tends to have a witch hunt for certain players. Pique was a good CB once, but not anymore. You guys have seriously extremely high expectations out of these players. Pique has lost his form since 2011. He was exposed many times even when we won the CL that year. However, Pep was the coach and everything was okay in the eyes of most fans here.

What are you talking about? Pique was very good that season and with Puyol's injuries and Abidal's cancer he was the one who kept the defence together. And I don't know what Pep being our coach at the time has to do with this..especially when in the next season he was benched quite a few times by the same coach.

Mathieu is a decent player but expecting him to be Abidal mark 2 is really ridiculous and highly disrespectful to Abidal. Abidal was one of the key players of Pep's squad and an absolute beast in both defense and offense.
Rakitic is great for defensive duties but his passing is not in the same league as Iniesta/Xavi and never will be.
Lastly, Xavi getting old has really messed up our midfield. I'm absolutely appalled at how underrated he is by lots of cules and lots of pundits. He was the one who kept the midfield as structured as possible and kept the tiki taka fluid. No, Iniesta can't cover the duties that Xavi had.

Maybe the cules wouldn't have so many expectations if they wouldn't hear the club's president saying that he made the biggest transformation the club has seen in the last 30 years or that we have the best team in the world. Or if the club's revenues would be smaller..or if we could also buy the players we need in midfeld before 2016.

In conclusion, Lucho/Tata/Tito, even Pep, can't really change much of these problems. We have to hope La Masia produces some ridiculous talent or we will have to turn into Galacticos Barca and buy world class players for most of our positions.

You know what's hilarious? That in the last 2 season our net spending is as big as Chelsea and RM's put together..but we haven't improved nearly as much as those 2. Also we have bought Suarez and Neymar for the atack, but then went for Rakitic, Vermaelen and Mathieu in deffence. We are the Galacticos Barca, only that the "Galacticos" doesn't mean buying world class players in every positions. It means buying them only in atack, while the spine of our team is the same as it was in 2011.
And maybe we wouldn't be so much better with Pep right now..but if it's one thing that you know that we would have with him is that he wouldn't be affraid to make decisions. Decisions like starting Cuenca against Chelsea or Thiago against Real Madrid..even though he lost those games, like instinct so kindly reminded us. In the meantime we still have to live with a Barca where Xavi is our best CM and Mascherano our best CB.

 

[serghei]

Then Enrique is an idiot. He chose this squad, he could have put a stop to all the players that have left and he could have chosen different players than those that have arrived. Mathieu himself says Barca only tried so hard to get him because Enrique insisted.

So what is it? He has a better squad or he is an idiot? Choose.

Idiot for me.

 

[serghei]

What are you talking about? Pique was very good that season and with Puyol's injuries and Abidal's cancer he was the one who kept the defence together. And I don't know what Pep being our coach at the time has to do with this..especially when in the next season he was benched quite a few times by the same coach.



Maybe the cules wouldn't have so many expectations if they wouldn't hear the club's president saying that he made the biggest transformation the club has seen in the last 30 years or that we have the best team in the world. Or if the club's revenues would be smaller..or if we could also buy the players we need in midfeld before 2016.



You know what's hilarious? That in the last 2 season our net spending is as big as Chelsea and RM's put together..but we haven't improved nearly as much as those 2. Also we have bought Suarez and Neymar for the atack, but then went for Rakitic, Vermaelen and Mathieu in deffence. We are the Galacticos Barca, only that the "Galacticos" doesn't mean buying world class players in every positions. It means buying them only in atack, while the spine of our team is the same as it was in 2011.
And maybe we wouldn't be so much better with Pep right now..but if it's one thing that you know that we would have with him is that he wouldn't be affraid to make decisions. Decisions like starting Cuenca against Chelsea or Thiago against Real Madrid..even though he lost those games, like instinct so kindly reminded us. In the meantime we still have to live with a Barca where Xavi is our best CM and Mascherano our best CB.

Gold comment, best I've read in a month on this forum. Exacty this. In the last 3 seasons, let's see the transfers we made:

2012 - Alba and Song, Madrid got Modric.
2013 - Neymar and that's pretty much it. Madrid got Isco and Bale
2014 - Suarez, and some cheaper players in Rakitic, Mathieu etc. Madrid got Kross and James Rodriguez


We are the stupid galacticos, not Madrid. Madrid took Varane, Isco, Modric and Kroos in the last 3 seasons. All 4 world class or close to world class. We only took Suarez and Neymar.
And Douglas. There's only one good Douglas on this planet and that's Michael Douglas, aka Gordon Gekko.

And all of this because of the board's vanity and "yes men" managers.

He gets the benefit of the doubt though. Maybe he's doing a reverse Tata and sucking in the first half of the season while getting it right in the second. I mean he can't possibly continue to be this shit throughout the entire season, right? RIGHT?

Well, maybe it sounds doom and gloom, but if we don't win against PSG and we get Chelsea or Bayern in CL, and if we also meet Real Madrid in the QF of the Copa del Rey, he and the players could go to Ibiza in april-may, because we'll be out of contention for any titles this season.

 

[FC B]

here's the thing. i have no hopes for lucho. will be great if we could get klopp

almost every team dreams of Klopp and I can't see him wanting to come to Barca. His style and philosophy also seem different to ours. But I'd love him to join us.

 

[MagIX]

Maybe the cules wouldn't have so many expectations if they wouldn't hear the club's president saying that he made the biggest transformation the club has seen in the last 30 years or that we have the best team in the world. Or if the club's revenues would be smaller..or if we could also buy the players we need in midfeld before 2016.


You know what's hilarious? That in the last 2 season our net spending is as big as Chelsea and RM's put together..but we haven't improved nearly as much as those 2. Also we have bought Suarez and Neymar for the atack, but then went for Rakitic, Vermaelen and Mathieu in deffence. We are the Galacticos Barca, only that the "Galacticos" doesn't mean buying world class players in every positions. It means buying them only in atack, while the spine of our team is the same as it was in 2011.
And maybe we wouldn't be so much better with Pep right now..but if it's one thing that you know that we would have with him is that he wouldn't be affraid to make decisions. Decisions like starting Cuenca against Chelsea or Thiago against Real Madrid..even though he lost those games, like instinct so kindly reminded us. In the meantime we still have to live with a Barca where Xavi is our best CM and Mascherano our best CB.

Gold comment, best I've read in a month on this forum. Exacty this. In the last 3 seasons, let's see the transfers we made:

2012 - Alba and Song, Madrid got Modric.
2013 - Neymar and that's pretty much it. Madrid got Isco and Bale
2014 - Suarez, and some cheaper players in Rakitic, Mathieu etc. Madrid got Kross and James Rodriguez


We are the stupid galacticos, not Madrid. Madrid took Varane, Isco, Modric and Kroos in the last 3 seasons. All 4 world class or close to world class. We only took Suarez and Neymar.
And Douglas. There's only one good Douglas on this planet and that's Michael Douglas, aka Gordon Gekko.

And all of this because of the board's vanity and "yes men" managers.

 

[serghei]

almost every team dreams of Klopp and I can't see him wanting to come to Barca. His style and philosophy also seem different to ours. But I'd love him to join us.

I don't know, 15th place Klopp? I'd take Marcelo Bielsa before Klopp, keep him 1 season, until the board changes, and let him go after one year if he goes crazy or smth.

 

[pacp_96]

and you believe that? we'll only win against psg because of our home ground and players' good form. it won't be down to lucho's tactics. psg will be more nervous than usual, playing at camp nou, our players will be more motivated, and we'll just have a good day. lucho ain't barca material.

Well if they were any less motivated then they wouldn't turn up.

 

[Avatar]

I might get flamed for this but guys it's an end of an era just accept it. 90 % of the players in our team have won all prestigious trophies that you could win in the sport. They just don't have the hunger anymore like they did before. It's natural, in any sport actually. RM players will naturally be more hungry than ours since they get absolutely butt***** by us for nearly 4 years straight. That's just utter humiliation in such a higher competition.


You can blame Lucho for this all you want, but if you want a change it will come from a serious change, as in getting rid of most of the old guard. Even bringing Pep back will not fix the pressing/ lack of movement/ etc. I give it 2 years max before this team seriously blows up. However, that's if we don't win any trophies.


It's still very likely for us to win La Liga. We have enough talent in the squad to beat 95 % of la liga teams. RM/Atletico find ways to screw up against those lower la liga teams. Don't expect a CL though. I expect us to get knocked out in QF like last year.

We got 7 players + the kids from Barca B. We already changed the squad markedly. Why would all those not be hungry for trophies?! They more or less won nothing yet !!

It is Lucho's mistake, whether we like it or not. He's the manager, and this team is demotivated or at least lacking the Desire !! That's always the team leader responsibility, whether in football, sports, business or life in general

These players are jogging around not running, not fighting and it's been the case since last season. The problem is not losing to Madrid, the problem is that we'd beaten APOEL with just one goal. We do not care, we do not fight, we do not run, we're spending some time on the field because it's our job. And there's a huge difference between someone going every morning to merely do his job, and someone who is ambitious !!

Pep was a fighter on the touchline, do we see that in Lucho? No .

As much as I hate saying it, Lucho won't win much with such complacency. Simeone would be the perfect candidate for us, we need lions. We need people like SImeone, Puyol and Mascherano. No wonder Masch. was our best player yesterday despite the mixup with Iniesta for the 3rd goal. He sweats blood. and he is still hungry for trophies too, he didn't win much yet.

Neither did Neymar, nor Bartra(a possible lion) , nor Bravo (another) nor Ter Stegen. plus the players mentioned earlier. Half the squad didn't win anything yet. lacking the hunger is Lucho's mistake.

 

[Irish_Cules]

The situation at corners was embarrassing yesterday. Not only do we suck at attacking/defending them, our own corners are actually a major chance for the opposition to score on the counter-attack.

 

[Neal Faradinho]

Lucho's tactics are crap, we need to play more through the middle, did anyone else notice that Madrid left a lot of space in the middle?

Playing the cm's so wide only makes it easier for the wingbacks and the wide forward while making it a lot harder for the cm's, the cdm and the striker.

 

[DennyCrane]

I feel like his managerial style, like Tata and Tito, just doesn't address the role required to get the best out of the team. Knowing how to mix and match individuals in a set-up only goes so far and is dependent on the uncertainty of individual form/motivation. It doesn't address the fact that the team tends to dwindle down as the season goes on from strong starts and that when our control of a match is broken, we look like a completely different team to the one that can thrash smaller sides who don't contest our dominance.

He knows how to make decisions and work with transfers or individuals. This can be seen in his stints at Roma/Celta where he brought key players like Lamela, Pjanic, Nolito, Fontas, Rafinha, etc. Many of his players also expressed delight at working under him and how he gave them chances to grow (like he is with Munir/Sandro now). He gave the foundation for both clubs to grow with the changes he made and the individuals he set up to succeed (like how Berizzo is expanding on Lucho's foundation with Celta to take them to 6th place).

That's the impact I feel he'll have on our club in his time here. He already made several important transfer decisions that I support (other than Douglas). He'll keep giving chances to Munir and co. which will firmly cement their places in the first team after he leaves. He set up the Neymar-Messi partnership properly to get the best out of their dynamic and Neymar especially is benefiting in terms of his scoring rate. Other than our defense, I really like our squad for this season looking at both short term and long term. He has built the foundation for the future in terms of personnel and all, but I don't think that he's the right guy to get the best out of it and turn it into a successful system.

Yes, he definitely has the potential to build a solid foundation for the future with the player material he has at his disposal, I just wish he were more consistent with his choices for the big matches too. And despite the tactical stuff I complained about earlier, he's a competent coach in that regard. But there are things wrong here that he can't fix, and neither can anyone else in his position.

To put this in simple terms, the midfielders at our disposal in both the youth squad and the B-Team roughly fall in one of two categories: The Iniesta and the Xavi one, some relying more on individual skill and dribbling, others have their strengths in the vision/game-reading/distribution department. All of them are technically gifted. What all these players lack though, is physicality. And whether a team can stil dominate without it, I strongly doubt.

Football 10 odd years ago was all about physicality in midfield, basically until the Xaviniestaquets generation came around and beat the old guard with technique and skill alone. But the new generation of midfielders popping up anywhere besides Barca combines all these traits: Physicality, pace and the technical/skill side of the game and I fear that a lot of these players would fall through the cracks at the Masia. I want the Masia to widen the scope - I fear that while searching for the next Xaviniesta we miss out on other types of players.
And the required boarding school mentality the Masia wants to instill in young players isn't for everyone either and problems emerge when players refuse to be conformed. Bad example since he's not actually a midfielder, but look how the club treats Deulofeu, a player who made it through the Masia mentality program seemingly unaffected: Barca is on a loan-out spree with him although he's insanely talented, yet is a difficult character with a spoiled brat mentality so he becomes a problem. But instead of sending him away, why can't we incorporate this type of player ? What kind of signal is this to other players with a strong personality (to put it in mild terms) ?


Edit: Same goes for the players we buy for specific purposes: It's always the same routine. Players come here for the different qualities they add to the standard cadre, are then miused and ultimately thrown under the bus for being different and not living up to an unrealistic benchmark set years ago. Cesc comes here accompanied with the proodigal son saga and is expected to tiki-taka, which he can't, and is then shipped out but doing well somewhere else where he's played to his strengths. Song could have been used as a player to put the midfield in lock-down; everyone knew he was limited from the get go yet we expect different. Now he's actually doing well with his new-team. And don't even get me started on Alexis who more and more becomes the focal point of Arsenal. Rakitic was added because he adds physicality in the middle, and yet he's benched when we need physicality and finds himself occupying the wing with Alves most of the time. What are we doing, do we have a plan ?

This makes it easier for a good successor to come in and take advantage of the resources left behind. Someone who, tactically speaking, is well educated in how total football works. Right now the name on my mind is Paco Jemez but the idea is just to have someone who knows the value of having a unified system. The kind that allows Rayo to outperform their individual value by 10x over, the kind that brought Athletic to CL last season and Europa/CDR finals in 11/12, the kind that Bayern has now to be crushing a very capable Roma team 7-1. It's real total football with constant movement and technical play, not this static and rigid formation bullcrap we're running now.

In theory, I agree with this completely, but my practical side wants to know who the successoor may be if we stick to our search for the next Guardiola and aren't willing to change or evolve. If we want a coach who forms a compact and unified team, has a track-record and is also familiar with the intricacies of our kind of football, there is no one but Pep for us. Tata tried to implements new aspects, ultimately failed and ended up almost empy-handed. Bielsa is a genius but also nuts and it would take roughly a week for him to go apeshit being confronted with the abysmal work ethic in our squad. Van Gaal is more than engaged with picking up the pieces back in Manchester. Guys like Garcia, Jemez or de Boer aren't strong and autonomous enough yet to withstand the influence from the top floor and do their own thing. Simeone isn't really into total football and neither is Klopp. Heynckes is retired. So what to do ?

For the foreseeable future, we have to stick to rolling with the punches. There's enough quality left in this team so the decline will continue to be slow, but decline we will if there is no drastic change of policy. At this point, there is no right or wrong anymore, but the taken approach whatever that may be needs to be wholistic and long-range and I want the responsible persons to communicate this accordingly.

Btw, brilliant post as usual DennyCrane.

:beer2: