Lliga | Round 27: FC Barcelona - Atletico Madrid 1-0

[JamDav1982]

Nope my point is that for example Higuain and Dybala are less involved than Messi and Suarez in the goals scored by the team as Juve has more goals where Higuain or Dybala didn't score or assist.

Which discounts the fact that neither of them are anywhere near as good as Messi/Suarez and wont get same type of individual goals.

Messi and Suarez scoring/assisting a lot is a good thing and team is helping them do it.

Lets look to Juve as an example when probably heading out of the CL and not even top of their own league.

They wish they could support two players to do what Messi/Suarez have so far.

 

[Stoichkov1]

Which discounts the fact that neither of them are anywhere near as good as Messi/Suarez and wont get same type of individual goals.

Messi and Suarez scoring/assisting a lot is a good thing and team is helping them do it.

Nope not good if the team can't score goals without Messi and Suarez assisting or scoring.

I was talking about Juve but the same is true for other teams like Real or Bayern who have more options.

If Messi or Suarez get injured/have a bad day Barca don't score goals unlike Juve, Real and Bayern.

 

[JamDav1982]

Nope not good if the team can't score goals without Messi and Suarez assisting or scoring.

I was talking about Juve but the same is true for other teams like Real or Bayern who have more options.

If Messi or Suarez get injured/have a bad day Barca don't score goals unlike Juve, Real and Bayern.

Messi and Suarez cant score/assist with rest of the team either as I said the rest of team are contributing to vast majority of those goals. It works both ways.

You are trying to put all the credit for any goal to Messi/Suarez that they have assisted or scored.

Real have only got going since their main goal scorer has started to function so not all that accurate and Juve are second in league and probably going out of CL.

You are trying to twist Barca having two big threats as being a bad thing. It isnt.

 

[Giginho75]

Too many stupid draws in the last times...
we have only to win tomorrow!

 

[Stoichkov1]

Messi and Suarez cant score/assist with rest of the team either as I said the rest of team are contributing to vast majority of those goals. It works both ways.

You are trying to put all the credit for any goal to Messi/Suarez that they have assisted or scored.

Real have only got going since their main goal scorer has started to function so not all that accurate and Juve are second in league and probably going out of CL.

You are trying to twist Barca having two big threats as being a bad thing. It isnt.

Nope I'm just counting how many goals Messi and Suarez have been involved in.

Real is having a bad season domestically because their defence concede goals, but even when Ronaldo wasn't scoring Real was still scoring, certainly more than Barca when Messi and Suarez don't score.

Juve have more points than last season after the same number of matches and are second only because Napoli is having an extraordinary season.

 

[JamDav1982]

Nope I'm just counting how many goals Messi and Suarez have been involved in.

Real is having a bad season domestically because their defence concede goals, but even when Ronaldo wasn't scoring Real was still scoring, certainly more than Barca when Messi and Suarez don't score.

Juve have more points than last season after the same number of matches and are second only because Napoli is having an extraordinary season.

Yip and those goals have almost all had other team mates in as well as I told you from start.

Real struggled to score in more big moments than Barca have in first half of season. Largely due to Ronaldo being off form. Much more so than their defence.

Juve are poor this season and would love to have two players producing the numbers Messi and Suarez have.

 

[Stoichkov1]

Yip and those goals have almost all had other team mates in as well as I told you from start.

Real struggled to score in more big moments than Barca have in first half of season. Largely due to Ronaldo being off form. Much more so than their defence.

Juve are poor this season and would love to have two players producing the numbers Messi and Suarez have.

Yeah of course other teammates have been involved in these goals, but that's not the point. The point is that Barca score less goals without their two main attacking players than other teams which means Barca rely more on two players than other teams as they have more options.

Real struggled and is struggling more because of their defence than because of Ronaldo being off form.

Juve certainly aren't poor this season as the number of points compared to previous years show.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yeah of course other teammates have been involved in these goals, but that's not the point. The point is that Barca score less goals without their two main attacking players than other teams which means Barca rely more on two players than other teams as they have more options.

Real struggled and is struggling more because of their defence than because of Ronaldo being off form.

Juve certainly aren't poor this season as the number of points compared to previous years show.

Of course Barca will score less without Messi or Suarez but teams would love to have two players doing what they have.

Most have not even been in position too anyway due to injuries etc.

Basically Messi/Suarez score about two thirds of the goals and assist about a quarter of them.

Real struggles were far more about Ronaldo than defence.

Juve are poor. Are second in league. Were toothless in CL group and most likely going out to Spurs.

 

[Stoichkov1]

Of course Barca will score less without Messi or Suarez but teams would love to have two players doing what they have.

Most have not even been in position too anyway due to injuries etc.

Basically Messi/Suarez score about two thirds of the goals and assist about a quarter of them.

Real struggles were far more about Ronaldo than defence.

Juve are poor. Are second in league. Were toothless in CL group and most likely going out to Spurs.

Even last year when Juve reached the CL final didn't rely so much on Higuain and Dybala.

And again I repeat that domestically Juve are better than last year as they have more points and a better goal difference. They would have been second last year too, Napoli are simply too good this season.

 

[PhilS]

Hey, if you have been watching the team this year, it is blindingly obvious, like Stoichov is saying, that Messi and Suarez are the only two acceptably productive offensive players this season. Used to be Paulinho was a third, but not recently. Coutinho, probably becoming offensive player #3, still integrating, now it's time for him to produce.

I do not blame Valverde, he has given quite a large list of players their chances. I blame all those players. All the other players who have played at forward. All the other midfielders, yes, including Iniesta. Alba and S. Roberto have been really good at times, but not recently.

For Atletico, this is a great time to be facing Barca. 8 Liga wins in a row, give them credit, that's fantastic. Barca, well, in 2018, except for the Copa Espanol match that Barca could afford to lose close, the best attribute has been avoiding losing. That is not nothing, drawing a lot during the worst patch of the season can still lead to trophies. Off recent form, right now I would take a draw for tomorrow and a scoreless draw for the Chelsea visit.

 

[JamDav1982]

Even last year when Juve reached the CL final didn't rely so much on Higuain and Dybala.

And again I repeat that domestically Juve are better than last year as they have more points and a better goal difference. They would have been second last year too, Napoli are simply too good this season.

Juve are definitely a poorer side this season.

If Messi and Suarez played for Juve those two would smash the goals/assists that Higuain/Dybala get but you act like that would then make them a weaker team.

 

[Stoichkov1]

Juve are definitely a poorer side this season.

If Messi and Suarez played for Juve those two would smash the goals/assists that Higuain/Dybala get but you act like that would then make them a weaker team.

Nope I'm just saying it's not good to rely so much on two players as it's important to have other options.

 

[Cule4life]

 

[JamDav1982]

Nope I'm just saying it's not good to rely so much on two players as it's important to have other options.

More like Juve and their multiple threats..which they dont have.

Or more like Real and theirs....Real struggle without Ronaldo being on form as shown this season.

Nope.

 

[henias]

Hey, if you have been watching the team this year, it is blindingly obvious, like Stoichov is saying, that Messi and Suarez are the only two acceptably productive offensive players this season. Used to be Paulinho was a third, but not recently. Coutinho, probably becoming offensive player #3, still integrating, now it's time for him to produce.

I do not blame Valverde, he has given quite a large list of players their chances. I blame all those players. All the other players who have played at forward. All the other midfielders, yes, including Iniesta. Alba and S. Roberto have been really good at times, but not recently.

For Atletico, this is a great time to be facing Barca. 8 Liga wins in a row, give them credit, that's fantastic. Barca, well, in 2018, except for the Copa Espanol match that Barca could afford to lose close, the best attribute has been avoiding losing. That is not nothing, drawing a lot during the worst patch of the season can still lead to trophies. Off recent form, right now I would take a draw for tomorrow and a scoreless draw for the Chelsea visit.

Then he has to take some blame for unnecssarily overplaying some like Roberto, Busquets, Iniesta; everyone prefers a small squad yes, but not when we have 3 competitions to juggle and considering he didnt even take advantage of the league cushion and played every match like we are in the finals.

Now it clearly backfired and we are struggling to find the energy we had at the start, plus he didnt do a good job letting the newcomers integrate more so they could come in as an alternative or potential rotational replacements. He dug his own grave, by limiting his players options and now obviously it would be harder to choose in "do or die matches", between the experienced but terrible or the slightly inexperienced but talented players. He didnt give the latter much chances and stifled their integration alot because he is stuck to the conservative setup we had at the start during the rebuilding phase. Now we have to make changes and bring more energy and fresh legs if we want to survive being champions. He cannot be stuck forever being conservative. Against smaller teams, he should have gone for the kill and then rest players when we take the lead to secure our points, not chase the game after being conservative for majority of the minutes. He got it all mixed up.

Also, doesnt make sense when Paulinho or Vidal failed to perform time after time he is still allowed game time. While players like Coutinho put up much more stable and promising performances. It just doesnt add up.

I don't quite agree players should take the blame. They were putting their energy week in week out, and clearly something is wrong when all of them seem lethargic and lifeless due to them having very heavy workload in all 3 competitions. Imagine yourselves in their shoes.

Manager needs to man up and take more responsibilty into handling the players energy better, and make use of the large squad we have, not just sticking to some random favourites all the time because they bring results at the start and ironically, totally ignoring a handful others.

He should know he's at a big club now. Until he get rid of rhe mentality, I dont think we will ever survive long even in the next few seasons.