Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi

[OGbarca]

yep. messi playing this poorly and winning the bdor is a joke and an insult to the sport

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Then why should Lewandowski or whoever win it?
Only won the Bundesliga (which Bayern wins by default), QF exit in the CL, groupstage exit at the Euro...)

QF exit in which he didnt play - isnt that the proof how important he is for bayern?

groupstage exit EURO - did you expect that he wins the EURO with poland?

 

[KingLeo10]

QF exit in which he didnt play - isnt that the proof how important he is for bayern?

groupstage exit EURO - did you expect that he wins the EURO with poland?

There's a whole lot of room between exiting in group stages and winning the Euro.

Even a R of 16 would be a massive achievement with Poland.

He can't be solely blamed for a group stage exit (of course, no player is wholly responsible for anything), but it's not impressive either. It's an average performance for a player with his stats.

Lewa is a great striker but recently his hype is through the roof and people are acting like he is in the class of R9, Romario, Van Basten, or Gerd Muller.

He actually doesn't have many CL KO goals (I believe only ~25 out of his ~85 CL goals are CL KO goals). And the only iconic CL performance against a big team I can remember from him is versus RM when he was at Dortmund.

He would be deserving of the Ballon D'Or this year if he won it but it's not like the gap between him and the rest is like the gap between Messi and CR7 and the rest when they were at their best.

 

[Morten]

He can't be solely blamed for a group stage exit (of course, no player is wholly responsible for anything), but it's not impressive either. It's an average performance for a player with his stats. .

Wrong.

It was a good tournament for him, all things considered, you can't have watched any of their games.

 

[KingLeo10]

Wrong.

It was a good tournament for him, all things considered, you can't have watched any of their games.

He's a player who's averaged 55-60 goals a season last 2 seasons. Those are prime Messi/CR7 numbers.

We can expect more than a group stage exit from him at that point. Because I know if Messi or CR7 got group stage exit with Poland while scoring more than a goal a game for their superclub, they would be absolutely ripped to shreds.

He performed at par but he wasn't impressive. Right now, Lewa is getting all the plaudits for what he does well, but not the criticism for what can be seen as shortcomings.

 

[Morten]

He's a player who's averaged 55-60 goals a season last 2 seasons. Those are prime Messi/CR7 numbers.

We can expect more than a group stage exit from him at that point. Because I know if Messi or CR7 got group stage exit with Poland while scoring more than a goal a game for their superclub, they would be absolutely ripped to shreds.

He performed at par but he wasn't impressive.

Poland were shambles, so no, not really.

He scored 3 goals, motm 2 out of 3 games, and one of the top performers on most ratings(whoscored etc).

He did about as well as he could have done, not his fault that Poland are below average.

 

[KingLeo10]

Poland were shambles, so no, not really.

He scored 3 goals, motm 2 out of 3 games, and one of the top performers on most ratings(whoscored etc).

He did about as well as he could have done, not his fault that Poland are below average.

Do you understand I'm not blaming him as the reason for why Poland didn't make it to KO stages?

I'm saying: He's set a benchmark of more than a goal a game at Bayern last 2 seasons. Where he is putting up prime Messi/CR7 numbers.

Therefore, we need to judge him at the strictest criteria. At the regular world class player criteria, he outperformed.

Right now, Lewa is getting the benefit of plaudits like prime Messi/CR7 did (rightfully so), but not the same level of criticism when he doesn't over perform on a consistent basis.

 

[Hardy]

https://twitter.com/verobrunati/status/1464257673562570770

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

He's a player who's averaged 55-60 goals a season last 2 seasons. Those are prime Messi/CR7 numbers.

We can expect more than a group stage exit from him at that point. Because I know if Messi or CR7 got group stage exit with Poland while scoring more than a goal a game for their superclub, they would be absolutely ripped to shreds.

He performed at par but he wasn't impressive. Right now, Lewa is getting all the plaudits for what he does well, but not the criticism for what can be seen as shortcomings.

hmm he has 3 goals in 3 matches while playing for poland, this is more than average, its pretty good.

''We can expect more than a group stage exit from him at that point. Because I know if Messi or CR7 got group stage exit with Poland while scoring more than a goal a game for their superclub, they would be absolutely ripped to shreds.''

Messi had 0 goals in group stage for argentinia, Ronaldo had one in 2014 for portugal - these were the times when both teams were crap, maybe on poland level and lewa still scores 3 in 3. He didnt rescued poland like messi did in 14 but he isnt Messi and for a ''normal'' player this is huge.

 

[soul24rage]

Poland were shambles, so no, not really.

He scored 3 goals, motm 2 out of 3 games, and one of the top performers on most ratings(whoscored etc).

He did about as well as he could have done, not his fault that Poland are below average.

Do you mean MOTM of the match or for Poland?

 

[KingLeo10]

hmm he has 3 goals in 3 matches while playing for poland, this is more than average, its pretty good.

''We can expect more than a group stage exit from him at that point. Because I know if Messi or CR7 got group stage exit with Poland while scoring more than a goal a game for their superclub, they would be absolutely ripped to shreds.''

Messi had 0 goals in group stage for argentinia, Ronaldo had one in 2014 for portugal - these were the times when both teams were crap, maybe on poland level and lewa still scores 3 in 3. He didnt rescued poland like messi did in 14 but he isnt Messi and for a ''normal'' player this is huge.

Pretty sure Messi and CR7 have been heavily criticized for not scoring enough in WCs (compared to their insane club scoring averages)...so you're supporting my point more than countering it.

He scored 3 in 3. As I've already said, that's great for regular old world class player standards. But are we still judging him by that based on his last 2 seasons? No, we're now judging him by all time great standards and those come with a lot of praise and a lot of criticism.

So when you compare 3 in 3 to his Bayern Munich scoring average and the scoring average he's set for himself (100 goals in like last 85 games or something), it's not impressive. It's par for the course, and I think he could have done even more.

Lewa has been having his cake and eating it too, IMO.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Pretty sure Messi and CR7 have been heavily criticized for not scoring enough in WCs (compared to their insane club scoring averages)...so you're supporting my point more than countering it.

He scored 3 in 3. As I've already said, that's great for regular old world class player standards. But are we still judging him by that based on his last 2 seasons? No, we're now judging him by all time great standards and those come with a lot of praise and a lot of criticism.

So when you compare 3 in 3 to his Bayern Munich scoring average and the scoring average he's set for himself (100 goals in like last 85 games or something), it's not impressive. It's par for the course, and I think he could have done even more.

Lewa has been having his cake and eating it too, IMO.

you are forgotting dude that bayern is some levels above poland, 3 in 3 for poland is like 7 in 3 for bayern Well have different opinions about it, it doesnt matter now fuuuckkkk itallyy

 

[KingLeo10]

you are forgotting dude that bayern is some levels above poland, 3 in 3 for poland is like 7 in 3 for bayern Well have different opinions about it, it doesnt matter now fuuuckkkk itallyy

Dude you are still supporting my point. If anything, that shows PART of the reason behind his stats is the support at Bayern.

And this was also the case for Messi and CR7 at Barca/RM. But they got a lot of shit for not replicating the success/goalscoring in WC/Euros/Copa...while Lewa gets a free pass apparently. His CL KO record is also under scrutiny.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Dude you are still supporting my point. If anything, that shows PART of the reason behind his stats is the support at Bayern.

And this was also the case for Messi and CR7 at Barca/RM. But they got a lot of shit for not replicating the success/goalscoring in WC/Euros/Copa...while Lewa gets a free pass apparently. His CL KO record is also under scrutiny.

Imo they got the criticism because they underperformed for their national teams, if they would have scored one goal per match nobody would have said anything. 2010 WC Messi had 0 goals, Ronaldo had one. 2012 EURO Ronaldo had three goals in 5 matches and i think media was quiet. 2014 Messi had 4 goals in 7 matches and if i remember correctly media didnt give him the fault for not winning the WC, Ronaldo got criticism as he had only 1 in 3. 2018 Messi had one goal in 4 matches. So you see their stats were not only a lot worse than their club stats, they were under average in general. I doubt media would have critizied them if they would have had 3 in 3 for example.

 

[Mitchell1978]

Imo they got the criticism because they underperformed for their national teams, if they would have scored one goal per match nobody would have said anything. 2010 WC Messi had 0 goals, Ronaldo had one. 2012 EURO Ronaldo had three goals in 5 matches and i think media was quiet. 2014 Messi had 4 goals in 7 matches and if i remember correctly media didnt give him the fault for not winning the WC, Ronaldo got criticism as he had only 1 in 3. 2018 Messi had one goal in 4 matches. So you see their stats were not only a lot worse than their club stats, they were under average in general. I doubt media would have critizied them if they would have had 3 in 3 for example.

As if goals are the only way to judge a performance?

Ronaldo got criticism in 2014 mostly because Portugal went out in the groupstage, Messi got criticism (including after the 2014 WC) for not winning with Argentina regardless of his performances.