Alik
Moderator
Regarding Beckenbauer, isn't it strange to compare a CB with all these playmakers and forwards?
If that is the case, might as well include other positions?
Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi V2
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
If that is the case, might as well include other positions?
Maradona37
Well-known member
That's true, and I did wanna put more defensive players in.
However, Beckenbauer revolutionsed the sweeper position, and was very good going forward when he wanted to. He could also play in midfield. Hence, I don't consider him 'just' a centre-back, like I would a Nesta or Baresi.
What you say is true, though. Much better to do a top 5/10 ever of every position. Gets a lot more legendary players in.
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
Beckenbauer,Cruyff ?? Bro look at the number of goals they scored and then look how many CR7 scored...
Come on Fati. Beckenbauer's greatness is not about goals. As a german-indian you should know that...
Kul_z
Senior Member
In barca next season he could go past juninho. Amount of fk's in which he thrives we concede he sure as hell would score 5,6.
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
*100% indian!
And yeah i just wanted to be funny but Mara didnt answer so i reveal it before it escalates😬
My top5 without a particular order is: CR, Messi,Maradona,R9, Dinho
Maradona37
Well-known member
I was offline lol*100% indian!
And yeah i just wanted to be funny but Mara didnt answer so i reveal it before it escalates😬
My top5 without a particular order is: CR, Messi,Maradona,R9, Dinho
Pele didn't score 70 freekick goals though. Media just made up that number.
raskolnikov
Well-known member
Pele stats are always tough to know for sure and could indeed be made up. Sometimes these type of lists get fabricated and people just run with it.
It wouldnt surprise me if the likes of zico snd platini are also up there in reality but we dont know.
soul24rage
Senior Member
Look how many WC finals they've reached and then look at how many CR7 has reached.
bismp
Well-known member
When did Ronaldo win when the team was average?Normally i dont post in this thread anymore but since you mentioned me, i explain my point of view about this topic
As i said often i dont like to say 'Hey, he is the GOAT!' , why? because the GOAT-tier players had different strenghts in different categories
For example if you ask me which player would you use to score a goal in a big game when you have a good team but not wc, my answer would be Maradona or CR7, because both proved in their career they can also win titles for you when the team is average/good
Messi had easily the talent to become the offical GOAT but there is sth he lacks, i mean you cant be the GOAT if your team get better when you leave (PSG, Argentina after his prime is over, now Barca after 7 years of humilations now only 2 years later 2 la liga titles and playing for treble)
If i have to choose who is the best individual player i would choose Maradona or Messi, both are excellent in dribbling, creating chances and finishing
So my top3 GOAT lists are Maradona, CR7 and Messi without a particular order
To clarify it more:
1986 Maradona, 2008-2012 CR7, 2008-2012 Messi
bismp
Well-known member
I agree with the posts about the top 10 list, especially about being too much post-2000s centric. I only began to watch football around 2005 so I can't comment on past eras, though I do have some thoughts:
-Number 4 may be too high for CR and everyone correctly pointed out that he became a stat-padder relatively early on his career, that his overall game even during his prime was lacking, that he was depending on a great Real Madrid team to feed him the chances, that his WC record is laughable etc...but: based on his achievements and sheer amount of goals alone, and yes his clutch moments, he deserves a spot in the top 10, there is no doubt about that.
-I can't comment a lot about R9 as he played a few years before my time, but I do have to say this about Ronaldinho. Don't get me wrong, Ronaldinho was the reason I and many people of my age got into football, but he is massively overrated. Even to this day if you ask 10 people on the street (growing up in that 2000s era, meaning aged 25-35) who was better: R9, Ronaldinho, Messi, CR or Zidane? I bet that the majority would say Ronaldinho. And that is pure nostalgia, I mean the guy won a WC, but as the 3rd attacking option. Then had 3-4 great years, but even during those years he only won 1 CL and underperformed in the WC. I mean imagine the backlash he would receive if this happened during the social media era. And then his form dropped like a bomb, it was really bad... If this is the standard for top 10 ALL TIME, then it is a sad realization for football. If we are talking top 10 primes, then I guess he has a good shot for top 10. But if we are talking careers, he is probably not even in the top 10 post-2000s...
-Number 4 may be too high for CR and everyone correctly pointed out that he became a stat-padder relatively early on his career, that his overall game even during his prime was lacking, that he was depending on a great Real Madrid team to feed him the chances, that his WC record is laughable etc...but: based on his achievements and sheer amount of goals alone, and yes his clutch moments, he deserves a spot in the top 10, there is no doubt about that.
-I can't comment a lot about R9 as he played a few years before my time, but I do have to say this about Ronaldinho. Don't get me wrong, Ronaldinho was the reason I and many people of my age got into football, but he is massively overrated. Even to this day if you ask 10 people on the street (growing up in that 2000s era, meaning aged 25-35) who was better: R9, Ronaldinho, Messi, CR or Zidane? I bet that the majority would say Ronaldinho. And that is pure nostalgia, I mean the guy won a WC, but as the 3rd attacking option. Then had 3-4 great years, but even during those years he only won 1 CL and underperformed in the WC. I mean imagine the backlash he would receive if this happened during the social media era. And then his form dropped like a bomb, it was really bad... If this is the standard for top 10 ALL TIME, then it is a sad realization for football. If we are talking top 10 primes, then I guess he has a good shot for top 10. But if we are talking careers, he is probably not even in the top 10 post-2000s...
soul24rage
Senior Member
16 years ago
Maradona37
Well-known member
Don't entirely agree on Ronaldinho, but respect the position and you made good points to argue it.
Agree on Ronaldo - definitely would include him in top 10, just daft when people say he's number 4 and try to include him with the big three. Ability wise he is very very good, but there have been a lot better, as he isn't a genius. But based on really good ability, achievements, stats, longevity etc, that all combines to earn him a place in the top 10.
But top four is fully because of the celebrity worship era, in my opinion.
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