KingLeo10
Senior Member
Yet you are camped here on a Friday evening while Dune Part II just got released.
And have 10,000 or so posts in 1 year
Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi V2
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
And have 10,000 or so posts in 1 year
soul24rage
Senior Member
I'm not sure. Here shows the bookies
World Cup 2022 Odds: Brazil favorites ahead of tournament opener
Check out the latest World Cup 2022 Odds, as the hype builds before Qatar 2022.
nypost.com
Windhook
Well-known member
Playing the BarcaOG playbook. Denial after denial, disrespect in every post to avenge OG's final meltdown the days after December 18, 2022. Matter of fact the newbies gang of Tempt and his peers disappeared for a while from this forum to cope with the "dwarf" winning the ultimate competition on the planet.
I find it ridiculous to diminish Argentina's WC 2022 triumph, while everyone on that squad clearly stated they played their hearts out to bring Lionel Messi the most desired trophy. That doesn't sound like no. 2 NT in the world mentality. They were at that spot for winning Copa America the previous year during the pandemic with no crowds allowed and also beating Italy in some meaningless friendly cup. None of the players except Lautaro played in top clubs. Compared 1986 squad and 2022 it's a very similar situation of few top players and team-oriented players. Scaloni applied that exact formula of 1986 Carlos Bilardo, intentional or not, it worked once again.
soul24rage
Senior Member
Exactly. It's inspiring really, having your team members fight for you. That's true leadership.
Never seen anything like that in football before.
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
I don't want to get involved in this stupidity, but you can look up the odds pre-1986 and Argentina were the runner-up in the odds to win the WC behind Brazil. Very close too.
So it's not like Maradona carried a team of scrubs. They had some all-time Argentine greats in that squad lol.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
That is pushing it, don't you think?
Could argue that Mbappe didn't have one in 2018, Non of French players were that great in 98 (Henry wasn't in his prime, and Thuram isn't even top 100). Germany 2014 will have Kroos as top 50 but who else?
I mean there is 22 World Cup played, if you make a list of top 50 players in history there will be at least 20 of them never win it, and there will be teams with multiple top 50 players. It is mathematically impossible to just lust 2 mate.
Argentina had very good squad and was well coached team in both 86 & 22, their super stars made the difference when they faced teams that had better overall talent.
Messi has done a marvellous job in 2022, but let's not do the same exaggeration that happened with both Pele and Maradona, I know it is human nature but with so much data and video evidence we should do better.
malvolio
Senior Member
Another underrated fact:
Messi and Maradona are the only all-time great players to win a WC without another all-time great player (another top 25-50 player in history). Messi also did this at 35.
R9 had R10 and Rivaldo + they had Denilson and Kaka on the bench FFS
malvolio
Senior Member
France 98 were at home and had a great squad that went on to win the next Euros. Likes of Desailly, Blanc, Thuram, Vieira are recognized as all time great players in their respective positions.
I also believe that the difference maker for France in 2018 was Mbappe. They wouldn't have won against Argentina if he wasn't on the pitch. But otherwise he didn't really carry them the whole tournament. And France has the best squad in international football since 2016. They had the best squads going in every WC/Euro since then. They are favorites again this Summer.
Messi was not only player of the tournament in 2022, but the greatest motivator for that team was for him to finally win a WC. So he basically carried them on a mental and sporting level.
Horatio
You're welcome
They generally have a pretty healthy rivalry. It’s not as odious as some think. A lot of respect from Brazilians for Argentina. At least, all the ones I have met.
“Core beliefs”….think a tad dramatic
soul24rage
Senior Member
Yeah, a lot of Brazilians respect him. Nice gesture from the GOAT signing autographs for a Brazilian
Gnidrologist
Senior Member
So he's from the street pooper land? Explains a lot his behavior on the internets.
bismp
Well-known member
Dude you are embarrassing yourself. Leo left Barca in very strange circumstances, aged 34. Realistically he could only go at one club that could cover his wages and tolerate his playing style (I mean no defense, which is a must in CL). First season was bad, second one was ok. If you want to go to stats and titles, he did win the league in both seasons, scoring some crucial goals. Yeah PSG were overwhelming favorites to do so even without him, but had lost the league in 2020/21, when they were supposedly at their best form reaching the CL semis and competing against City.Triggered and started throwing personal insults for no reason as usual. Next step is crying about me when I retaliate.
Anyways, I'll stick to the topic:
Messi is easily the best LL player of all time. No debate.
Messi is not the best CL player of all time. He has 3 CL trophies as the main man. He's the second best as it stands.
The leagues argument: No, it's not compulsory to leave La Liga. Messi was playing for the club he supposedly loves so why leave? Agreed....... except.....he did leave and went to the worst top league playing for a state funded oil club and failed. So, he changed leagues and failed which is definitely a red mark on his CV.
His club career is one of the best ever. But not the "undisputed best club career by a countrymile" like some of his acolytes claim.
This was my point.
In any case, even if we admit that Leo failed miserably, this has little to no impact to his legacy, BECAUSE HE WAS 34. You people are acting like the dude went in PSG at his prime and failed. The man had won everything that could be won at this stage, was forced to leave Barca (or at the very least had to leave very abruptly) and obviously wanted to focus on Argentina at this stage of his career.
If you want to count these two seasons as complete failure, go ahead. But if you wanna go there, let's examine the club career of the supposed #1:
-Went to Juve aged 33, which means that he was at a similar stage like Messi in 2021. He openly admitted that he went there to win the CL. The best they managed was getting KO'd in the quarters. He put some good stats in his second and third seasons, while obviously experiencing a steep decline on his overall game. His stats in the end meant nothing, as his last season in Italy was the first season that Juve failed to win the Seria A since 2010/11. One could say that building a team around an aging narcissist could not lead to another outcome
-Then he famously hyped his return in Manchester aged 36. He had some good moments in the first season, but we all know how things turned out. I am not going to go there and slander him though, as ManU is a known dumpster and the man was well beyond his prime.
-Finally, let's talk about his prime, his time in Spain. I have already analysed how, while being overall good to fantastic in all 4 CL wins, he was lucky to be supported by his teammates in some of the wins (mainly 2016+2018), in ways Messi could never dream of. But ok, let's keep it classy and admit that CR is probably the CL GOAT, just based of accomplishments and iconic moments (though Messi at his very best was better IMO). But how about La Liga?
CR fanboys famously forget that CR played in La Liga for 9 years. It is as if he was on vacation for 9 years. In those 9 seasons, the final count was: Barcelona 6, Real 2, Atletico 1. Not really flattering. Both Leo and CR played with fantastic teammates and were coached by great managers, so there's that. The thing is, that in those 9 seasons, the La Liga title was decided in the final 2-3 fixtures a total of 7 times (4 for Barca, 2 for Real, 1 for Atleti). The other two times Barca won comfortably (2013 and 2018). It can't be a coincidence that Leo and Barca almost always came on top. Maybe it has to do with the fact that Leo almost exclusively was crucial in all big moments, including the Classicos (in which Barca had a record of 10-4-4 against Real from 2009/10 until 2017/18 iirc).
So yeah, go ahead and count the 2 years at PSG as the crucial moment in Leo's legacy
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
Dude you are embarrassing yourself. Leo left Barca in very strange circumstances, aged 34. Realistically he could only go at one club that could cover his wages and tolerate his playing style (I mean no defense, which is a must in CL). First season was bad, second one was ok. If you want to go to stats and titles, he did win the league in both seasons, scoring some crucial goals. Yeah PSG were overwhelming favorites to do so even without him, but had lost the league in 2020/21, when they were supposedly at their best form reaching the CL semis and competing against City.
In any case, even if we admit that Leo failed miserably, this has little to no impact to his legacy, BECAUSE HE WAS 34. You people are acting like the dude went in PSG at his prime and failed. The man had won everything that could be won at this stage, was forced to leave Barca (or at the very least had to leave very abruptly) and obviously wanted to focus on Argentina at this stage of his career.
If you want to count these two seasons as complete failure, go ahead. But if you wanna go there, let's examine the club career of the supposed #1:
-Went to Juve aged 33, which means that he was at a similar stage like Messi in 2021. He openly admitted that he went there to win the CL. The best they managed was getting KO'd in the quarters. He put some good stats in his second and third seasons, while obviously experiencing a steep decline on his overall game. His stats in the end meant nothing, as his last season in Italy was the first season that Juve failed to win the Seria A since 2010/11. One could say that building a team around an aging narcissist could not lead to another outcome
-Then he famously hyped his return in Manchester aged 36. He had some good moments in the first season, but we all know how things turned out. I am not going to go there and slander him though, as ManU is a known dumpster and the man was well beyond his prime.
-Finally, let's talk about his prime, his time in Spain. I have already analysed how, while being overall good to fantastic in all 4 CL wins, he was lucky to be supported by his teammates in some of the wins (mainly 2016+2018), in ways Messi could never dream of. But ok, let's keep it classy and admit that CR is probably the CL GOAT, just based of accomplishments and iconic moments (though Messi at his very best was better IMO). But how about La Liga?
CR fanboys famously forget that CR played in La Liga for 9 years. It is as if he was on vacation for 9 years. In those 9 seasons, the final count was: Barcelona 6, Real 2, Atletico 1. Not really flattering. Both Leo and CR played with fantastic teammates and were coached by great managers, so there's that. The thing is, that in those 9 seasons, the La Liga title was decided in the final 2-3 fixtures a total of 7 times (4 for Barca, 2 for Real, 1 for Atleti). The other two times Barca won comfortably (2013 and 2018). It can't be a coincidence that Leo and Barca almost always came on top. Maybe it has to do with the fact that Leo almost exclusively was crucial in all big moments, including the Classicos (in which Barca had a record of 10-4-4 against Real from 2009/10 until 2017/18 iirc).
So yeah, go ahead and count the 2 years at PSG as the crucial moment in Leo's legacy
Ronaldo didnt take la liga serious dude, he focused on champions league 😬 when he wanted a ll in 2017 he won it, guy decided himself which trophies he wants to win -stunning 🔥🔥
DonAK
President of FC Barcelona
Maybe he should have decided he want to win a World Cup for his and your country too instead of going out crying in front of the entire world.
Home of Barca Fans
