JamDav1982
Senior Member
Rangers and Celtic and they are poor sides but have more players that would be sought after than Leganes.
Leganes would be better than any other side.
Joan Laporta
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Rangers and Celtic and they are poor sides but have more players that would be sought after than Leganes.
Leganes would be better than any other side.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
It doesn't matter who is it "on".
Financial information is private, there is no way the player knows whether a club is capable of registering him or not, and plenty of clubs had players missing games in first weeks due to registrations.
The rules makes the players pays for club incompetencies and lies. That is almost exclusive to Spain's FFP rule. Everyone else take points or apply fines.
Financial information is private, there is no way the player knows whether a club is capable of registering him or not, and plenty of clubs had players missing games in first weeks due to registrations.
The rules makes the players pays for club incompetencies and lies. That is almost exclusive to Spain's FFP rule. Everyone else take points or apply fines.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
The player knows fine well if club struggling to register them.. when not registered and the reasons for it.
Financial rules are not entirely private... the league publish the salary cap space every season.
That is in the club not the rules by that point.
Incompetence and lies of clubs within those rules yes.
Financial rules are not entirely private... the league publish the salary cap space every season.
That is in the club not the rules by that point.
Incompetence and lies of clubs within those rules yes.
ajnotkeith
Senior Member
They are 'rough' but not difficult. You might drop points every so often to a side with a potato pitch playing 10 at the back but vast majority of the time those teams are free points.
In reality none of those sides ever pose any real threat over the course of a season, they are just there to swindle and scam some draw by playing like brutes, but the quality of football is poor and those teams will never achieve long term success playing like that.
jamrock
Senior Member
La Liga doesn't need to do much, the gap is growing but not insurmountable.
First thing they need to do is accept that you can't use austerity as a way to greatness, it's a policy of hoping your rivals fail, so you can take up the scraps.
They should have listen to me.
The great Joan Laporta has shown them, that's not how you do things. even when you're at your worse, you need to find ways to compete.
Growth is the answer, as the EPL completely understands.
Even Germany is now taking on more debt, because they also now understand, you can't stand still as your rivals push forward, competitiveness is a skill, that if you don't use it, you lose it.
1. Losen the rules at little
2. Maybe go down to 18 teams, I've maintained for a while now only England can maintain 20 teams in Europe.
3. Better marketing, the EPL was saying at every opportunity they are the best league in the world for about 10 years before they were actually that, league needs to find a marketing narrative and push it HARD.
That's pretty much it, the stadiums are fine, from a broadcast prospective, most look good on TV.
The natural talent of spain keeps the lower teams competitive.
They just need to retain the best talents and bring in a few more from overseas.
First thing they need to do is accept that you can't use austerity as a way to greatness, it's a policy of hoping your rivals fail, so you can take up the scraps.
They should have listen to me.
The great Joan Laporta has shown them, that's not how you do things. even when you're at your worse, you need to find ways to compete.
Growth is the answer, as the EPL completely understands.
Even Germany is now taking on more debt, because they also now understand, you can't stand still as your rivals push forward, competitiveness is a skill, that if you don't use it, you lose it.
1. Losen the rules at little
2. Maybe go down to 18 teams, I've maintained for a while now only England can maintain 20 teams in Europe.
3. Better marketing, the EPL was saying at every opportunity they are the best league in the world for about 10 years before they were actually that, league needs to find a marketing narrative and push it HARD.
That's pretty much it, the stadiums are fine, from a broadcast prospective, most look good on TV.
The natural talent of spain keeps the lower teams competitive.
They just need to retain the best talents and bring in a few more from overseas.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
The rules barely impact Real, Atletico, Bilbao etc.
While likes of Villareal are adapting and starting to get their own economy of buying and selling players as well run.
It is Barca they are resrtictive too but they have also forced Barca to lower the salary etc,
Laporta is a gambler and these rules have most likely kept him in check a bit.
Would bet my bottom dollar Messi would still be at club on huge contract otherwise.
While likes of Villareal are adapting and starting to get their own economy of buying and selling players as well run.
It is Barca they are resrtictive too but they have also forced Barca to lower the salary etc,
Laporta is a gambler and these rules have most likely kept him in check a bit.
Would bet my bottom dollar Messi would still be at club on huge contract otherwise.
EPL clubs recorded 1.7 billion in losses this transfer market. Over 3 billion spent with around 1.5b in income.
You can't compete with that, and EPL can't sustain that. But being outside the the EU now, their model is that of the American model. Spend 3billion because you are recording an asset appreciation of 2/3x that.
Yes it is all fluff, and outside of real economics that we live by daily, but as long as interest is paid and cashflow is high then the model will keep going- until it can't.
Now back to Spain and their more stringent spending. It was said to stop clubs going almost obsolete like Depor and Zaragoza. They said Italian football isnt sustainable. And then one of the biggest investors outside of England decide to pump their coughers (get it?) into what they Eat (get it again? This is high level stuff).
So yeah the anti austerity measures are also anti investment. All the while, the Spanish economy is supposedly booming precisely because a few big investors are buying the properties incredibly cheaply, increasing asset value and the increase rents, resale prices and bank loans associated.
Basically what English club investors are doing with their football clubs, but LaLiga haven't caught wind that they should make their football clubs as attractive. And start with mandatory buyout clauses of 1b to stop limiting the clubs negotiating hand.
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jamrock
Senior Member
What do you mean by real threat?
Is the likes of Rayo,Osasuna, elche, suppose to be a real threat? Over the course of a season to Atleti, Barca and Madrid? Are lower level teams in the EPL a real threat to Liverpool, city, arsenal.
Those lower teams are suppose to be just that, a tough game, potential banana skip.
EPL & La Liga is the only two leagues offering that right now.
Real threat?
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Three teams will always be relegated.
La Liga didnt vote to bring in FFP rules for no reason.
A lot of the teams were in a mess financially before these rules and seen likes of Malaga more or less vanish.
These mid to lower teams were not spending their way out of trouble at all before these rules or brining in players to sell them on for big money.
Well run clubs like Villareal are adapting. The ones that are not are struggling.
The top sides in Real, Ateltico are barely impacted and Bilbao never really are impacted either way due to their outlook.
The rules could be relaxed to allow more investment if buyers invest upfront and cover all increases in FFP over a period of time maybe but lets not pretend La Liga before these rules was attracting investment in same way likes of EPL does.
La Liga didnt vote to bring in FFP rules for no reason.
A lot of the teams were in a mess financially before these rules and seen likes of Malaga more or less vanish.
These mid to lower teams were not spending their way out of trouble at all before these rules or brining in players to sell them on for big money.
Well run clubs like Villareal are adapting. The ones that are not are struggling.
The top sides in Real, Ateltico are barely impacted and Bilbao never really are impacted either way due to their outlook.
The rules could be relaxed to allow more investment if buyers invest upfront and cover all increases in FFP over a period of time maybe but lets not pretend La Liga before these rules was attracting investment in same way likes of EPL does.
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Spain and Germany income and expenditure quite close this market too btw. Germany slightly more with 2 teams less mind. Only Italian (outside EPL) spent a fair bit more than expenditure, but bare in mind they have cash rich Como and Juve who like Madrid, have their own rules for their own rules.
But generally dominated by 4/5 sides with alot more no name shitters than Spain.
Spanish football has alot of potential with big cities and clubs. Valencia the obvious, but outside of what is going on there, the Seville clubs should really be able to spend and sell at the level of Frankfurt. Betis has one of the best training infrastructures in Europe and an incredible Stadium rebuild. Let's see if they can sustain this growth.
But generally dominated by 4/5 sides with alot more no name shitters than Spain.
Spanish football has alot of potential with big cities and clubs. Valencia the obvious, but outside of what is going on there, the Seville clubs should really be able to spend and sell at the level of Frankfurt. Betis has one of the best training infrastructures in Europe and an incredible Stadium rebuild. Let's see if they can sustain this growth.
jamrock
Senior Member
I agree with porque the EPL is definitely moving to a debt to valuation model, which is why the Chelsea group is spending money for like their is no tomorrow.
They believe by doing that, keeping the team competitive, they will increase the long term value of the asset and when they are ready to cash in, someone will pay X more than they have put in already and they will make a nice profit.
It might not be sustainable, but so long as the TV money keeps growing and they can service the debt, coupled with some fancy accounting it's fine.
While LA Liga is looking at this from a old fashioned this is how you run a house budget prospective.
It takes me back to what I was say about the levers back in the day, fans can't look at it as simplistic as many were, clubs/companies with billion dollar valuations operate on a different level of accounting, but that's for a different day.
Tebas model may be more sustainable over 30 years but by then the league will be dead and the EPL will get a bail out of some sort.
PS Barcelona should change its model to something like bayern has, or simply sell 49% of the club, shit ton of cash wrapped up in our valuation that we can't take advantage of
49% is at least 2-3B.
They believe by doing that, keeping the team competitive, they will increase the long term value of the asset and when they are ready to cash in, someone will pay X more than they have put in already and they will make a nice profit.
It might not be sustainable, but so long as the TV money keeps growing and they can service the debt, coupled with some fancy accounting it's fine.
While LA Liga is looking at this from a old fashioned this is how you run a house budget prospective.
It takes me back to what I was say about the levers back in the day, fans can't look at it as simplistic as many were, clubs/companies with billion dollar valuations operate on a different level of accounting, but that's for a different day.
Tebas model may be more sustainable over 30 years but by then the league will be dead and the EPL will get a bail out of some sort.
PS Barcelona should change its model to something like bayern has, or simply sell 49% of the club, shit ton of cash wrapped up in our valuation that we can't take advantage of
49% is at least 2-3B.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Betis are probably better run now than can remember any time in last 20 years to be fair.
Dont think can claim the rules are having a negative impact on them,
Same with Villareal they are well run and starting their own circle of buying and selling players.
Bilbao have their best team in 20 years also.
On Valencia... I like watching then and their young team of largely Spanish players and think rules benefit them also in long run and not giving big wages to players who they want to just sell on.
Guerra, Diego Lopez (ex Barca), Pepelu all decent to watch as is older Rioja. Even Hugo duro looks decent compared to past.
Folk are living with rose tinted spectacles if think La Liga was thriving before these rules.. teams were struggling for most part and not spending big and selling on players.
Yeah Betis are on the ascendancy. While Villarreal are doing well but seems to have these up and down cycles. But seems this year, although late, they played the market as well as they played Cadiz.
Who knows maybe Roig was just trying to finance the stadium improvements without too much added debt and risk.
I know Lim is astute, so maybe he and Valencia are witholding investment until the land and stadium build/sale is all complete too. Now it finally looks like it is going ahead and will be a World Cup stadium.
Fuck, maybe Thebes know what he is doing and in 3/4 seasons after the World Cup and all the stadium and training centre improvements that Spanish football will be sitting pretty.
Imagine that being the timeline we are on and Eyebags was right all along
.JamDav1982
Senior Member
Up and down cycles are normal but these rules were brought in as the future for a lot of Spanish teams was bleak after covid and reality is they were not all well run and needed saved from themselves a bit.
The rules have been relaxed as go on and teams are being forced into finding new ways of revenue - training grounds, stadiums etc whereas in past they may have taken more risks than club could afford on the field.
La Liga can have 10 or so well run clubs with good stadiums. Would struggle after that would think.
Betis for example while building new stadium just got 65K folk at their last game and are falling back in love with way their teams is building it seems with greater connection between fans and team.
For the mid level teams these rules are probably forcing them to be better run and for top teams they are not impacting negatively.. bar Barca to some extent but have also forced Barca not to pay huge salary to Messi or gamble way out. They have been forced to reduce wage bill and rely more on La Masia.
The rules have been relaxed as go on and teams are being forced into finding new ways of revenue - training grounds, stadiums etc whereas in past they may have taken more risks than club could afford on the field.
La Liga can have 10 or so well run clubs with good stadiums. Would struggle after that would think.
Betis for example while building new stadium just got 65K folk at their last game and are falling back in love with way their teams is building it seems with greater connection between fans and team.
For the mid level teams these rules are probably forcing them to be better run and for top teams they are not impacting negatively.. bar Barca to some extent but have also forced Barca not to pay huge salary to Messi or gamble way out. They have been forced to reduce wage bill and rely more on La Masia.
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