Ivan Rakitić

[shadows]

Rakitic is past it and at 31 that won't change again. He isn't the worst player ever and Valverde tactics + Busi and the rest of the team setup probably don't help either but at this point he pretty much adds nothing of value to the team at all.

Roberto moving to CM and Valverdes quotes on Rakitic at least give a little bit of hope he might actually leave, but then again he himself seems to be the only man on earth who thinks he has earned his safe starting spot at Barca for life here with his amazing performances so he would probably need to be benched a lot before he realizes it's over. Not sure if that will actually happen though, i can't trust Valverde maybe it was just a trick

What do you think? When Roberto is moving to midfield, it means he will be rotating with Arthur and FDJ for the vacant third spot in midfield alongside Busquets and Rakitic.. Valverde dropping Rakitic?? Haha.. Wont believe it until i see it..

 

[BBZ8800]

I wanted Jovic at 9 who combines everything with speed/strength/jumping ability and elite ambidextrous footwork.

Jovic is too short to be an athletic Cf for my taste.
Athletic CFs are Ibrahimovic, Mandzukic, Etoo, Lukaku, Ruud, Trezeguet.
I am leaning more towards strength and height for a Cf than to a pure pace.
So, if I could pick a tall and strong guy with an average pace or a guy with average height (Jovic) with a good pace, my pick is=height and strength for a Cf.
2 wingers can offer enough of pace for counters.
A CF should offer a presence in the box and some heading ability (on top of a regular finishing skills).

So, in short, Jovic is nowhere near my dream of a classical Cf.

And you speak about me "not wanting to change" and "keep doing the same things that cause us to lose". Newsflash buddy, it was your WORKHORSE team that bit the dust at Anfield. Rakitic/Vidal central midfield, Roberto at RB, Coutinho playing over Dembele.

You got every single thing you wanted, and it failed catastrophically.

Just think about that for a second, and then come back @ me about perpetuating the losing tactics that we've suffered over the past few years.

1. I wanted more physique=we had it, true
2. I wanted leaders=Messi, Busi, lol? So we don't have that
3. I want more fighters. We have one a a half: Vidal and Suarez. So, we need more.
4. I want less schoolboys
5. I want less guys with Coutinho's and Dembele's frightened submissive personality
6. a very important thing: we need a plan B in attack. Our only plan is playing through the ground for Messi. I have asked for some crosses and headers since always. Who can head the ball in our team?
Ok, counters are also an option. But if counters with Dumbele are an option, I will rather give up before a match than rely on Dembele.
7. The same as in defense: in Europe, we are a team of midgets who conceded at least one goal after corner/header in our last 3 CL exits: Juve, Roma, Liverpool.
For La Liga having Albas and Arthurs is fine. In Europe, that means that you are starting a match with a 0:1 deficit since you will concede at least 1 after a corner.
If you'll reply: we were fine during short Xavi and Iniesta. Well, teams evolved. Juve, Roma, everyone are hurling 100s of crosses against us since they know that they are our biggest weakness.
Opponents are not dumb. If we are good in midfield, they won't go out and try to outplay us in possession. They will look for different areas.
And then we have a Gk somewhat weak on crosses and a team where only Pique, Lenglet and somewhat Suarez and Raki can jump.

So, yeah, I didn't actually get what I wanted.
IT is the same as saying: you had Xavi-Iniesta-Busi against AM for 2 years, and they lost.
You will find 100s of excuses and say: they were old, or we had a weak RB, or we had a bad attacker, we didn't move well, we didn't press as well as we used to etc, right?
Well, yes. True.

Btw, I wouldn't play Roberto as a RB in an away game if we are having a lead.
Also, I wouldn't play Coutinho, but a good old EV's 442 with 4 true midfielders. Let's say: Busi-Raki-Vidal and then Cou as a LM/RM or Arthur.
I don't think that Dumbele would have changed too much in 433. But neither would Flopoutinho.

So, EV had some traits which I wanted, but far from it that Anfield's team is my dream team and a dream setup.
But still, even flopped Anfield's setup would be my choice over 3 lighter midfielders.
I have seen enough of that horror show since 1994 till today, and I don't want to see it ever again in a CL away KO match, so no thanks.

So, we will need something in between.

 

[Laplacian]

Jovic is 1.81m, that's not short. It's perfectly fine for a lone CF, and I'm pretty sure that's as tall as Samuel Eto'o.

 

[Judoman]

Carlos Tevez is 1.71. If Jovic produces 3/4 of his impact he ll be a good player. He should, he is 10 cm taller

 

[BBZ8800]

Jovic is 1.81m, that's not short. It's perfectly fine for a lone CF, and I'm pretty sure that's as tall as Samuel Eto'o.

Carlos Tevez is 1.71. If Jovic produces 3/4 of his impact he ll be a good player. He should, he is 10 cm taller

Are we talking about players who could be fine and ok to be strikers or about strikers who will be the key in a CL KO matches?

I am not saying that Jovic is a bad player.
But imo, he is far from a player who will lead you to a CL glory.
And far from a player who will offer 10s of different attacking options.

I am not sure why are you mentioning a 1,71 cm tall Tevez.
In previous posts we talked about a plan B, for example against parked buses where you need a taller no9 to drag away the defenders and to offer an aerial strength and headers.
Even though Tevet scored some headers, he is far from a player on whom you will rely in the 80th minute when you start to hurl crosses into the box.

Tevez/Aguero/Jesus are players on whom only Pep can try to hurl crosses.

 

[Laplacian]

You said he wasn't tall and then you cited Eto'o as your ideal CFs physique wise, alongside the others you mentioned. I'm just saying Jovic seems pretty similar to Eto'o in terms of physique. Secondly, how do you know? It's not like he's had a chance to prove himself in the highest level. I didn't watch his team, but based on the info and videos in Jovic's thread his goals are pretty varied in execution, type (header, chips, strong finishes etc), and are from all over the penalty area. He also seems to be a well rounded player: he can dribble, carry the ball, finish with either foot, hold the ball, is mobile/agile, and he canplay-make. He seems to be the player that can offer a lot of options.

I don't know if he'll translate that to Real Madrid, but I do believe he's a well rounded striker.

 

[Judoman]

Are we talking about players who could be fine and ok to be strikers or about strikers who will be the key in a CL KO matches?

I am not saying that Jovic is a bad player.
But imo, he is far from a player who will lead you to a CL glory.
And far from a player who will offer 10s of different attacking options.

I am not sure why are you mentioning a 1,71 cm tall Tevez.

I m mentioning Tevez, because you said Jovic is to short to be athletic CF. Tevez was athletic CF, but he relied on his strength and agility. He was obviously lacking height, but there are very few players who have the whole athletic package (like CR).

1.81 is more than enough to be a dangerous presence from the crosses.

Also this:

So, if I could pick a tall and strong guy with an average pace or a guy with average height (Jovic) with a good pace, my pick is=height and strength for a Cf.

What about technical ability, off ball movement, work rate, determination,...? Are athletic proportions your bottom line?

 

[Potroh]

So, if I could pick a tall and strong guy...

Strong, tall, masculine fighters with exceptional physique...

Did it cross your minds that BBZ is actually a SHE?

 

[MagIX]

In previous posts we talked about a plan B, for example against parked buses where you need a taller no9 to drag away the defenders and to offer an aerial strength and headers.

I totally agree.
And I'd like to add:
1) a tall striker is also very useful in the defensive phase for corners and crosses.
2) long passes: this is a very important factor for having a tower as forward. When the opponent press us high and we try a long pass to bypass the midfield, to bypass the high pressure.... 99% the ball is lost: that's logical by having players like Messi or Suarez or Dembele or Couthino or Malcom in front.
Having a tower in front who can catch, stop and hold the ball at his feet allows the team to move up, to get out of the defense, and (or with a header) e.g. open up space for a counterattack.
,

 

[Kul_z]

Jovic is too short to be an athletic Cf for my taste.
Athletic CFs are Ibrahimovic, Mandzukic, Etoo, Lukaku, Ruud, Trezeguet.

Jovic looks like a tank, i dont know what you talking about.
Trezeguet? Athletic? Lmao, prime suarez eats him alive every day of the week.
Those six players combined have 4 cl titles, from which eto'o have 3, 2 with us.
So lets see how this stands in percentage, like you love to do it when if fits your agenda:

Those players are active lets say from 2000, so out of 20 cl titles, thats 20% success with your elite athletic specimens. Its retarded to look it that way, but thats the way you look at things.

 

[Raketa10]

If PSG refused Raki+Cou for Neymar I don't know what else can we do. We can try to sell Raki for 40-50 but if he doesn't want to go we can't force him. In the case Neymar stays at PSG Cou will probably stay here. So it's simple either we'll get Neymar or we'll be forced to keep both Cou and Raki.

 

[Judoman]

If PSG refused Raki+Cou for Neymar I don't know what else can we do. We can try to sell Raki for 40-50 but if he doesn't want to go we can't force him. In the case Neymar stays at PSG Cou will probably stay here. So it's simple either we'll get Neymar or we'll be forced to keep both Cou and Raki.

Forced? Perhaps Rakitic. I doubt Coutinho wants to stay as much as Rakitic does.

There are 2 good options:
1. Sell both
2. Get a good coach.

We re choosing option no. 3:

do nothing

 

[Raketa10]

Forced? Perhaps Rakitic. I doubt Coutinho wants to stay as much as Rakitic does.

There are 2 good options:
1. Sell both
2. Get a good coach.

We re choosing option no. 3:

do nothing

1. Yeah Rakitic needs to be forced because he has no intention of leaving and selling Cou for an acceptable price is not so easy. Do you honestly think someone would pay 90 or 100 mil for him this summer?!?! If we sell for less we'll be accepting a huge loss. That's why exchanging them for Neymar is basically our only realistic solution.

2. Isn't happening this summer

 

[Judoman]

If we had gotten a good WC coach, selling Rakitic and Coutinho would not be an issue. Rakitic could have stayed as a backup (and only backup) and Coutinho might
have start playing as we know he can.

If we sell Coutinho it will be for a loss in any case, since we over paid in the first place. The longer we wait the bigger our loss will be (adding his wages), since the chance of him starting to play well is very small with Valverde staying.

I ve been saying this for a while, it all starts with management. Inability to employ the right staff snowballs in to all sorts of problems we have. I feel like most of hate some of our players get is due to bad management and consequently coaching.

 

[Raketa10]

If we had gotten a good WC coach, selling Rakitic and Coutinho would not be an issue. Rakitic could have stayed as a backup (and only backup) and Coutinho might
have start playing as we know he can.

If we sell Coutinho it will be for a loss in any case, since we over paid in the first place. The longer we wait the bigger our loss will be (adding his wages), since the chance of him starting to play well is very small with Valverde staying.

I ve been saying this for a while, it all starts with management. Inability to employ the right staff snowballs in to all sorts of problems we have. I feel like most of hate some of our players get is due to bad management and consequently coaching.

I agree with you regarding a WC coach but unfortunately we have idiots in our board so that won't happen unless we start season really bad and I mean REALLY BAD!