How to approach the rebuild

[Birdy]

Tusquets said there would be no signing in January unless we sell players. And given the new president will not have much time left after being elected into office, the chances of signing anybody this coming winter are pretty much nil, which is totally fine I think. We don't have money and we shouldn't rush to sign anybody like Depay that we will regret later just to salvage this season. Plus we don't know if Messi will be leaving or not, also the fate of Koeman and who our next manager will be etc. Give the new president and his team enough time to plan for next summer.

I wanna see what the chances are of Messi leaving before elections.
What if he sends a beraufax to Tusquets who - given his recent interview - will not be opposed to the move?

 

[Birdy]

63 goals conceded in 63 games in the CL league

Tells you all you need to know.

Ter-Stegen's shot stopping in the CL over the last 6 years as Barca keeper is 2/10 or 3/10 at best.

Most mid table level keepers would have better stats if they were put into Barca over the last 6 years.

Hot garbage keeper.

xG mate!
Great metric.
If the total xG conceded is close to half of it, means MATS has done a good job.

If a team is crap and concedes too many chances, it's not keeper's fault

 

[Luftstalag14]

I wanna see what the chances are of Messi leaving before elections.
What if he sends a beraufax to Tusquets who - given his recent interview - will not be opposed to the move?

I don't think Messi will be leaving this January at all, because first, to do so will mean a team like City or PSG will have to pay a small fee to us, which can totally be avoided by waiting another 6 months. Totally unnecessary for them to do.

Another reason would be that Messi probably will wait for the election to happen and gives the new president a chance to woo him and change his mind.

We should know by next spring whether Messi is set on leaving and that will hopefully give us enough time to plan for next summer. Personally I hope Messi tells the new president as soon as he is elected that his mind is set so we can start planning even earlier.

 

[Laplacian]

MAtS also went crying to media when Bravo was Liga keeper and said he wasn't satisfied with this situation at Barca which made Barca sell Bravo.

Players like MAtS are the reason why Barca are in the shithole we are in right now. So many players have been given guaranteed playing time, huge salaries, long contracts, no competition and have caved to every single one of these players wants. This in turn breeds arrogance and entitlement which is what we see on the pitch.

This is the player that a large portion of the fans want as their 'future captain'. It's madness!

You know why he would never say something like that for the German National Team? Because he knows he'd be signing his death certificate with that team if he did. But shit like this is rewarded at Barca lmao.

I'll say it again: small club mentality. We act like we're thankful for these players to play for us and thus show it by overcompensating through contracts and promises of multiple starts. Instead of you know, making players feel like they should be blessed to be in the club and taking whatever spot they can get. We have u-23 players with over 10m a year in salaries. Meanwhile club legends in Madrid barely earn 15m...

Real Madrid acts like it's a huge club, we're a club with huge funds and popularity that still acts like we're blessed to be one of the top clubs in the world. That's why we're not ruthless.

 

[JamDav1982]

I wanna see what the chances are of Messi leaving before elections.
What if he sends a beraufax to Tusquets who - given his recent interview - will not be opposed to the move?

He said the club should have sold him not let him go for free.

There is no chance they let him go for free in January.

 

[Messi983]

I said it before and I will say it again, I think big signing will be a big priority if we lose Messi, it is almost a certainty .
Liga and Spain need a strong Barca, with a competent board I won't be surprised if they loosen the restriction and support us. Messi leaving will be a disaster and Liga and Barca need a new poster boy.

We just don't have money for any big signing imo. Would like to be wrong and get Haaland or Upamecano (he's not exactly a big name signing but would be much needed) and ideally both but just don't see it happening.

Busi will be the easiest to get rid off, players who has post career aspiration with barca will not force themselves on the team for contractual reasons. Busi is a lock to be a future Barca coach, and next board might stay for 12 years. He won't try to burn bridges with them.
Umtiti and Coutinho are almost impossible though.
You need a club to accept taking Coutinho salary at the age of 29, never mind he will be a huge loss on our books. At best he is a player who cost us 120M for a 5.5 contract. That is 21M per year loss on our books if he leaves for free.
I would love it to happen, I would hope that Coutinho wants to enjoy football somewhere else, but I don't see it.
Umtiti has a bum knee, unless we accept paying half of his salary to loan him for 2 year in Lyon, I don't see it happening.

Hope you're right about Busi but sadly just don't see him leaving especially if Xavi will take over as a next coach (one of the many reasons I don't want him back for 2-3 more years).

I believe Coutinho will still generate interest in EPL (which is not as affected by corona as the rest of the world). Next summer he'll be 3,5 years into his 5,5 years contract. His unamortized cost will be around 50-60m and I think we could get something close to that to not have too big loss on him on the books and we'd also save money for his wages. I'd be even willing to loan him again with an obligatory buy for 40m in 2022 (a year before his contract expires). The main thing is to offload him. He's just useless and I prefer Pedri, Puig (eventhough I don't rate him highly) and maybe even Ilaix get a chance ahead of him.

I'd be willing to pay part of Umtiti's wages to get rid off him. Whatever costs we can save is better than nothing.

This is where I strongly disagree and think it is a terrible way of starting a rebuild.
You don't try to rebuild with kid, you need to try to sign players who are ready for the next step, players around 23-35, and maybe even some 27 years old players who can give you great 4 seasons.

Surely, this would be ideal but players entering their prime who are good enough are very hard to get especially in current situation. Who would you suggest we could realistically sign in that 23-27 age range that would improve the team at the positions of needs. I just don't see many available players.

I think our best option are players on expiring contracts like Alaba, Wijnaldum or Depay. Sure, first two are already closer to 30 than we'd like but wouldn't mind them on shorter term contracts.

Also, FDJ and Dembele will be 24 so they should be entering their prime years but sure, they are both further behind in their development than they should be, especially Dembele because of his injury problems. Lenglet will be 26 so he's also in that range.

Basically you want the team next year to have:
Araujo (22), Garcia (20),Dest (21), Emerson (22) Fati & Pedri (18,almost 19). Eric Garcia 20, Balde (18)
Pedri (19) Ilaix (18)
Konrad (20) & Fati (19)
Along our previous young signings who are stull very underdeveloped: Dembele, FDJ and Firpo

There is no balance in this squad, no veteran leadership, no good players in their prime to allow those young players to properly develop.

I agree about the lack of leadership and that should be addressed. That's why players like Wijnaldum or Alaba would make sense. They are both captains for their NTs and AFAIK also 2nd/3rd captains in Bayern/Liverpool. Depay is also a captain for Lyon.

Also, you didn't understand me. I didn't mean for Balde or Ilaix to be fully promoted to the first team. They should imo stay in Barca B until 2022 (Balde will only turn 19 by the start of the 2022/23 season) but they should train with the first team sometimes and maybe play in Copa. But if some injury occures and they get a chance and do a Fati like impact then they should obviously stay in the first team.

Something like this wouldn't look to terrible imo and we wouldn't need to spend too much money we don't have.

GK: MATS, Neto (wouldn't mind selling him for a good offer though and have Pena as a backup)
RB: Dest, Emerson (Roberto can also cover if needed if not sold for a good money)
CB: Alaba, Lenglet, Araujo, E.Garcia - Would really like to get Upamecano/Kounde instead of E.Garcia (who is overrated as a former La Masia kid imo) but unlikely. Send Pique to MLS if he doesn't want to retire. If he wants to stay shouldn't be anything more than a 4th/5th CB though.
LB: Alba, Alaba/Dest - I think we could be without a full-time LB backup with multiple players able to cover there. I like Firpo but he'll be gone by next season and I don't think we'll bring someone to replace him.
DM: FDJ, Pjanić
CM: Wijnaldum, Roberto, Pedri, Puig
AMC: Griezmann, Puig
RW: Dembele, Trincao
LW: Ansu, Depay
ST: Malen, Depay/MB

We could play either 4-2-3-1 or return to 4-3-3 with no Messi around anymore.

Haaland should be our primary target but just don't think we can afford him or that he'd be interested coming here even if we would somehow find money for him. So maybe risk with someone like Malen who would be much cheaper.

We wouldn't get much in terms of transfer fees for departing players but we would clear a lot of wages which would be helpful in coming years.

See how younger players will develop then in 2022 when financial situation will hopefully be better go and buy what's needed. Surely a new midfielder or maybe two will be needed, then a striker/winger and a longterm replacement for Alba who would be our only player older than 32 at the start of the 2021/22 season.

I'm sure this won't happen and he won't be the only remaining amigo still here next season though.

Going full youth is a recipe for disaster tbh

I don't disagree but it's even worse not doing anything. Anyway, if my math is correct then average age at the start of next season for the above lineup would be around 25,4 years so we wouldn't be so extremely young.

 

[khaled_a_d]

We just don't have money for any big signing imo. Would like to be wrong and get Haaland or Upamecano (he's not exactly a big name signing but would be much needed) and ideally both but just don't see it happening.

Clubs can always talk with governments/UEFA to ease the rules. Barca and Liga need the new poster boy wearing Blaugrana, tbh even UEFA will prefer that over every big player going to epl.
I still insist that , for better or worse, we will have money for the Haaland of players, but not for the Upamecano

Hope you're right about Busi but sadly just don't see him leaving especially if Xavi will take over as a next coach (one of the many reasons I don't want him back for 2-3 more years).

I believe Coutinho will still generate interest in EPL (which is not as affected by corona as the rest of the world). Next summer he'll be 3,5 years into his 5,5 years contract. His unamortized cost will be around 50-60m and I think we could get something close to that to not have too big loss on him on the books and we'd also save money for his wages. I'd be even willing to loan him again with an obligatory buy for 40m in 2022 (a year before his contract expires). The main thing is to offload him. He's just useless and I prefer Pedri, Puig (eventhough I don't rate him highly) and maybe even Ilaix get a chance ahead of him.

I'd be willing to pay part of Umtiti's wages to get rid off him. Whatever costs we can save is better than nothing.

We both agree on this.
Coaches love for Busquets is a problem, but if the decision is made I don't think it will be a problem getting him out.
Agree on Umtiti situation, hope next board will have same opinion.
Not sure about Coutinho though, I think at best you can hope for 40M deal but even that is doubtful with his salary.

Surely, this would be ideal but players entering their prime who are good enough are very hard to get especially in current situation. Who would you suggest we could realistically sign in that 23-27 age range that would improve the team at the positions of needs. I just don't see many available players.

I think our best option are players on expiring contracts like Alaba, Wijnaldum or Depay. Sure, first two are already closer to 30 than we'd like but wouldn't mind them on shorter term contracts.

Also, FDJ and Dembele will be 24 so they should be entering their prime years but sure, they are both further behind in their development than they should be, especially Dembele because of his injury problems. Lenglet will be 26 so he's also in that range.

I don't watch football enough to be able to scout those type of players tbh.
But there is always names out there that can help and easier to purchase.
The point of this thread is the approach, not which names we get.
I want someone who is on the cusp of breaking out, not someone who we will get to develop for few years, because we have enough of the later.
A player like Depay is ideal for example, but he is just a bad fit for this team. But players at that age and ability are surely good for us.

 

[JamDav1982]

Barca are not in any FFP danger but lack cash.

Wouldnt be surprised if next president puts to a socios vote regarding a big loan to keep Barca active in the market and more time to correct squad.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Barca are not in any FFP danger but lack cash.

Wouldnt be surprised if next president puts to a socios vote regarding a big loan to keep Barca active in the market and more time to correct squad.

I think the state of our finances (too much debt and debt repayment is hindering our reinvestment into the squad and anything else) currently means it is very hard for us to borrow more money, not sure if we will be able to find lenders who will offer good terms.

 

[Kul_z]

We should aim, at this time of desperation, to enforce defense and middlefield. Make it functional again. We should look for world class defenders, with attitude, carisma, leadership. Also some middlefielders who can run, but with different set of skills. Some fast, some with great technique, some with great vision. We need a mf general(xavi, lampard, gerrard, modric, de bruyne, koke) type of player and mindset.

And we need to hire some good fucking shrinks, our mentality is at the lowest point ever

 

[Devils]

Free agents this summer.

Should get Depay, Wijnaldum, Garcia and Bernat on cheap/free. Alaba would probably want huge wages so we'll avoid him.

Sell: Coutinho, Griezmann, Firpo, Trincao (loan), Alena, Fernandes

Buy: Haaland

This should be more than feasible.

Ideally we would get rid of Pique and Lenglet as well and buy a top CB, but that might have to wait until 2022.

 

[JohnN]

Don't we have any young and promising midfielders and defenders? That's where the team desperately needs rejuvenation. We can't keep going with lenglet, umtiti, pique, alba, sergi and Busi.
My hope is pjanic will be sold too, as he is just another past it, never that exceptional to begin with type of player, a.k.a. Rakitic v.2, only never quite that good either.

 

[FC433]

1- Klopp has won everything there is to win with LFC. Let us see if we have any chance. If that does not work, then we have got Pochettino as a second option. Xavi, Pimienta, and Erik ten Hag are alright. Marcelo Gallardo? a bit risky, but is an interesting option. (For me, either JK/ MP).

2- Overmars just resigned. Seems like a good option, thoughts? some talk about Zorc? Laporta loves Alemany? I would add Ralf Rangnick to the list. We have a number of excellent SDs.

3- Get Haaland.

 

[Messi983]

Overmars is someone I could get behind as a SD. Ticks a former player box (which all our boards seems to like for whatever reason when selecting sport directors) but in opposite to the likes of Abidal or Zubi he actually has a lot of experience in that job.

Ajax and Barca are brotherly clubs with similar philosophy. Now obviously Ajax is considered a developing/selling club while we're a buying club supposed to compete for titles every year but I think in our current situation doing the rebuild with limited finances over the next few years it will be challenging and we could use Overmars's knowledge and experience with signing cheaper talents before other clubs snap them out or they break out in another club and their price go up.

It also helps I've always liked Dutch players eventhough only a few of them over the last 20-25 years were really great for us. I've watched some games of Dream Team but if I'd have to choose a single player responsible for me falling in love with Barca it would be Patrick Kluivert. I've watched him at Ajax and was elated when we've signed him. And the rest of his NT team mates in following years. It obviously didn't really worked out well but my admiration for Ajax/Netherlands NT is still there.

OTOH I don't believe Eredivisie is really producing that much talent with high upside recently so I'd prefer someone with extensive knowledge of Ligue 1 as our SD or at least being close to him in a decision-making process when it comes to transfers. So someone like Luis Campos who has done a great job building that Monaco team a few years ago and who is now also doing well bringing cheap young talent to LOSC would be another option I'd consider.

And I've already explained in another thread some time ago I'd love to get Monchi. Alemany wouldn't be a bad choice either IMO.

Zorc looks interesting too on paper but I think it's unrealistic he'll leave BVB. Dortmund and Ajax are clubs with similar transfer philosophy but in opposite to Overmars Zorc has no knowledge of Barca and he has also never played or worked outside of Germany so it's very questionable if/how he'd adapt.


At this time I'm not concentrating too much on potential future coaches, I just don't believe Xavi is ready yet nor that it's his time to return to the club with some of his former team mates still here. I also think we'd be better trying to do something different instead of trying to replicate Pep's team with much worse squad which is what I'm affraid Xavi will try to do.

Klopp would be a pipe dream but it's very unlikely he'll leave L'pool for 2-3 more seasons (he has contract there till 2024 IIIRC). I don't really like Pochettino too much and he also doesn't like Barca. And he's probably United bound once they'll get tired of OGS and won't even be available next summer anymore.

So if we'd think for an outside alternative (with no previous links to the club) my choice would probably be Nagelsmann. Yeah, it would be risky but still think it could work. But Messi and other amigos would need to leave before he comes. I think it's pretty unlikely they'd respect someone who's younger than them. But that's ok as I believe they should all leave in next 18 months regardless of who our president and coach will be so we can finally move on from the past and start to think about what's ahead of us.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Klopp would be suicidal to choose current Barca. No money, a lot of politics and big pressure.. If we could offer money to build a team and no pressure situation(time) I think we would become attractive option. Make Barca great again.

Our first mission should be to fix our finances. Pay some of the debts and live by the budget. (And die by it too).

Next few years: Save money, pay off debt, hopefully finish the Stadium project.. We need new stadium.

Fans need to understand the new reality. There's no money to buy galactico signings every summer.

Laporta isn't the man for this project btw.