Hans-Dieter Flick

[Jozh]

The problem is not at the base. It's with the CBs and full-backs.
We have several like Araujo Kounde, Balde at times, who can't pass, and get trapped in the opposition's pressing

You guys are literally lying to yourselves, Balde and Cubarsi is a build up cheat code and Kounde can pass a ball. The only one who struggles is Araujo.

 

[ZenI]

At least as far as md and attack is concerned, he didn't have other fit players mate.
Simple as that

Now, if you wanna argue Christensen should have played instead of Araujo, I will hear that, but that's a limited discussion

PS: Chelsea show up in big games. Review all their big games under MAresca to see that

This is wrong, Olmo and Rashy should have started.

 

[Birdy]

I never said not but I was under the impression that defending was something we were discussing

Problem with defending starts from up top with attackers pressing suboptimally, and in general the team pressing with 50% or less of the last season's intensity.
This is not on PEdri and De Fraud either

 

[JamDav1982]

we needed Pedri badly today. We had almost no player who wanted to take the ball from defense and bring it up.

Barca were facing same issues v PSG, Sevilla with Pedri.

Were failing to win 4 of the last 5 games he played in with a lot of same issues.

Of course Pedri improves team but those same issues still there.

 

[Temptation]

As a Flick fan:

2 things can be true at the same time.

Araujo let him down and destroyed his gameplan.

But he also got "out-tacticed" by Maresca today. Maresca is a great tactician against big teams.

 

[serghei]

Thats not how Spain have been setting up recently.

Pedri been deeper and Merino at AM to add physicality in box.

Spain also dont have to play teams of standard of those top teams in CL either.

The issue is also that you can't pass to either of Pedri and De Jong under marking and rely on them to hold off the markers and complete a pass. They suffer whenever players are very close to them.

You say teams mark them 1 vs 1. But a superior midfielder is not as easily isolated or intimidated by 1 vs 1. You still have or should retain the possibility of controlling a pass and releasing some of the pressure the team is facing. It is not really acceptable for them to not be parts in build-up just because someone presses them.

 

[Birdy]

This is wrong, Olmo and Rashy should have started.

Rashy not fit to start, after having trained just once in several days.

Olmo out of form, Fermin is the starter since a while. Fermin was bad tonight, but Olmo has been shite for longer

 

[JamDav1982]

The issue is also that you can't pass to either of Pedri and De Jong under marking and rely on them to hold off the markers and complete a pass. They suffer whenever players are very close to them.

You say teams mark them 1 vs 1. But a superior midfielder is not as easily isolated or intimidated by 1 vs 1.

No.. they are two of the best in world under pressure but it is not a pass you make when players are man marked like that.

Goes with any player.

Teams can pressure them more due to so little threat from other ways out and how poor like of Kounde are on ball.

 

[DonAK]

Unless something drastically changes you absolutely have to find a way to sell Araujo and Kounde next summer and consider getting rid of Olmo too.

Maybe by some miracle that will mean we can afford a striker, FBs and CBs.

 

[serghei]

No.. they are two of the best in world under pressure but it is not a pass you make when players are man marked like that.

Goes with any player.

Teams can pressure them more due to so little threat from other ways out and how poor like of Kounde are on ball.

I disagree with this. Neither impresses under pressure. Quite on the weaker side.

 

[Jozh]

Problem with defending starts from up top with attackers pressing suboptimally, and in general the team pressing with 50% or less of the last season's intensity.
This is not on PEdri and De Fraud either

The attackers press Man 2 Man. This means everyone must win their duels, it also means everyone must win their duels for 90 minutes. You cannot ask Attackers specifically to run IN and OUT of possession all the time. It is why we press decent for the first 20 minutes and then fall off, that is not sustainable. So to counter this zonal pressing was created. Good teams now have hybrids of these presses to minimize opponent build up and maximize your potential. We DO not have the players to press M2M the whole game, so recognizing this what coaches have done, is COACH a midblock so the consesquence of the first line of pressure isn't drastic. We have none or a poorly coached one. Pedri and Frenkie not having defensive nous means that our consequence is greater since they cannot defend space.

 

[JamDav1982]

I disagree with this. Neither impresses under pressure. Quite on the weaker side.

They are two of the best but being man marked there is no players taking ball there deep and doing much more than passing it back to defence at best.

Try man marking Chelsea midfielders and leaving Gusto/Cucu on ball while pressing high and see what happens.... it wont be the ball getting played into those players deep.

 

[serghei]

They are two of the best but being man marked there is no players taking ball there deep and doing much more than passing it back to defence at best.

Try man marking Chelsea midfielders and leaving Gusto/Cucu on ball while pressing high and see what happens.... it wont be the ball getting played into those players deep.

Of course there are. There's lateral passes to be played first time. There's pockers of space to be accesed at times with a quick turn. There's protecting the ball until other players make moves on their own.

Nobody asks some Messi touches, but they can do more imo.

There's no such thing as man marking all the time at super efficiency. They are not doing enough. Pedri was poor vs PSG. De Jong was poor today. They are not victims in the slightest. But players who share blame for our inability to deal with pressure and intensity.

 

[JamDav1982]

Nah you are wrong.

IT is possible to limit what they can do and as said not how other teams like Chelsea would deal with it.

Frenkie and Pedri are two of the best midfielders in the world at taking ball under pressure.

 

[serghei]

What you say is true for normal players. Yeah, normal midfielders don't get the ball if any pressure is exercised on them, and alternative routes are explored. The truly elite ones can't be marked out as easily as you say.