Hans-Dieter Flick

[Temptation]

As a Flick fan:

2 things can be true at the same time.

Araujo let him down and destroyed his gameplan.

But he also got "out-tacticed" by Maresca today. Maresca is a great tactician against big teams.

 

[serghei]

Thats not how Spain have been setting up recently.

Pedri been deeper and Merino at AM to add physicality in box.

Spain also dont have to play teams of standard of those top teams in CL either.

The issue is also that you can't pass to either of Pedri and De Jong under marking and rely on them to hold off the markers and complete a pass. They suffer whenever players are very close to them.

You say teams mark them 1 vs 1. But a superior midfielder is not as easily isolated or intimidated by 1 vs 1. You still have or should retain the possibility of controlling a pass and releasing some of the pressure the team is facing. It is not really acceptable for them to not be parts in build-up just because someone presses them.

 

[Birdy]

This is wrong, Olmo and Rashy should have started.

Rashy not fit to start, after having trained just once in several days.

Olmo out of form, Fermin is the starter since a while. Fermin was bad tonight, but Olmo has been shite for longer

 

[JamDav1982]

The issue is also that you can't pass to either of Pedri and De Jong under marking and rely on them to hold off the markers and complete a pass. They suffer whenever players are very close to them.

You say teams mark them 1 vs 1. But a superior midfielder is not as easily isolated or intimidated by 1 vs 1.

No.. they are two of the best in world under pressure but it is not a pass you make when players are man marked like that.

Goes with any player.

Teams can pressure them more due to so little threat from other ways out and how poor like of Kounde are on ball.

 

[DonAK]

Unless something drastically changes you absolutely have to find a way to sell Araujo and Kounde next summer and consider getting rid of Olmo too.

Maybe by some miracle that will mean we can afford a striker, FBs and CBs.

 

[serghei]

No.. they are two of the best in world under pressure but it is not a pass you make when players are man marked like that.

Goes with any player.

Teams can pressure them more due to so little threat from other ways out and how poor like of Kounde are on ball.

I disagree with this. Neither impresses under pressure. Quite on the weaker side.

 

[Jozh]

Problem with defending starts from up top with attackers pressing suboptimally, and in general the team pressing with 50% or less of the last season's intensity.
This is not on PEdri and De Fraud either

The attackers press Man 2 Man. This means everyone must win their duels, it also means everyone must win their duels for 90 minutes. You cannot ask Attackers specifically to run IN and OUT of possession all the time. It is why we press decent for the first 20 minutes and then fall off, that is not sustainable. So to counter this zonal pressing was created. Good teams now have hybrids of these presses to minimize opponent build up and maximize your potential. We DO not have the players to press M2M the whole game, so recognizing this what coaches have done, is COACH a midblock so the consesquence of the first line of pressure isn't drastic. We have none or a poorly coached one. Pedri and Frenkie not having defensive nous means that our consequence is greater since they cannot defend space.

 

[JamDav1982]

I disagree with this. Neither impresses under pressure. Quite on the weaker side.

They are two of the best but being man marked there is no players taking ball there deep and doing much more than passing it back to defence at best.

Try man marking Chelsea midfielders and leaving Gusto/Cucu on ball while pressing high and see what happens.... it wont be the ball getting played into those players deep.

 

[serghei]

They are two of the best but being man marked there is no players taking ball there deep and doing much more than passing it back to defence at best.

Try man marking Chelsea midfielders and leaving Gusto/Cucu on ball while pressing high and see what happens.... it wont be the ball getting played into those players deep.

Of course there are. There's lateral passes to be played first time. There's pockers of space to be accesed at times with a quick turn. There's protecting the ball until other players make moves on their own.

Nobody asks some Messi touches, but they can do more imo.

There's no such thing as man marking all the time at super efficiency. They are not doing enough. Pedri was poor vs PSG. De Jong was poor today. They are not victims in the slightest. But players who share blame for our inability to deal with pressure and intensity.

 

[JamDav1982]

Nah you are wrong.

IT is possible to limit what they can do and as said not how other teams like Chelsea would deal with it.

Frenkie and Pedri are two of the best midfielders in the world at taking ball under pressure.

 

[serghei]

What you say is true for normal players. Yeah, normal midfielders don't get the ball if any pressure is exercised on them, and alternative routes are explored. The truly elite ones can't be marked out as easily as you say.

 

[JamDav1982]

What you say is true for normal players. Yeah, normal midfielders don't get the ball if any pressure is exercised on them. The truly elite ones can't be marked out as easily as you say.

No you are wrong.

Every single midfielder in world would be limited v these teams with this set up.

Frenkie and Pedri are two of the best under pressure.

Doesnt mean they always play well outwith that either.

 

[Windhook]

Unless something drastically changes you absolutely have to find a way to sell Araujo and Kounde next summer and consider getting rid of Olmo too.

Maybe by some miracle that will mean we can afford a striker, FBs and CBs.

We've never sold for profit outside of Neymar in modern history.

Remember the times when Araujo was valued at 80m and Bayern interested? And hardly anybody wanted him to go. That's not happening nowadays.

Somebody has to convince Ronald and his agent, that they are at West Ham level with a steroid contract.

 

[DonAK]

We've never sold for profit outside of Neymar in modern history.

Remember the times when Araujo was valued at 80m and Bayern interested? And hardly anybody wanted him to go. That's not happening nowadays.

Somebody has to convince Ronald and his agent, that they are at West Ham level with a steroid contract.

Any sale for Araujo will count as a profit in the books. Probably more or less the same for Kounde.

With Olmo it gets a bit more tricky.

 

[freetocan]

Unless something drastically changes you absolutely have to find a way to sell Araujo and Kounde next summer and consider getting rid of Olmo too.

Maybe by some miracle that will mean we can afford a striker, FBs and CBs.

Totally agree. I would not make Rashford permanent either, he does not bring anything. Barca should start to get rid of all these deadwood including Ferran. So yes, Kounde, Araujo, olio, ferran torres and Rashford should be sold sooner than later.Honestly, I am not happy with de Yong either who does not bring anything, do not create any goal chance, just always pass back. Look close to him and you will note that too.