Hans-Dieter Flick

[Maradona37]

Vinicius is doing really well now, isn't he? He's 25 and already looks finished. Whereas Salah has been brilliant for at least 8 years. And reached a level Vinicius isn't capable of. Vinicius is just a one-dimensional cut in and shoot merchant. He has nothing else to his game, which is why he's currently being found out.

Don't get me started on KDB. Anyone who has ever kicked a ball can see he is significantly more technically gifted and higher IQ than Vinicius.

 

[serghei]

Clutch is a horrible Americanised term that nobody who is a proper football fan cares about.

Salah played equally well in the 2022 CL Final, the difference is Courtois saved his shots (even when placed in the corner) and Vinicius scored his. Fine margins and says absolutely fuck all about who is better at football.

Your problem is you think you can rate a player's individual football talent by specific moments. That's the sort of reasoning Ronaldo fanboys give for him being better than Messi.

No, because Messi had many clutch moments as well. If you take Messi's key goals in big moments out, like Wembley, Rome, Camp Nou several times, Bayern in CL semis, then yes, Ronaldo would have probably be seen as the better player.

 

[Maradona37]

No, because Messi had many clutch moments as well. If you take Messi's key goals in big moments out, like Wembley, Rome, Camp Nou several times, Bayern in CL semis, then yes, Ronaldo would have probably be seen as the better player.

Proving my point as Messi would still have been miles more talented.

I contend that Salah and De Bruyne are both much more talented than Mbappe and Vinicius. That's not the same as saying the RM men cannot have bigger moments in bigger games. Possession of talent v application of what talent you do have.

They've probably had bigger moments than Neymar too overall but are they better than him? Or more talented?

 

[serghei]

Proving my point as Messi would still have been miles more talented.

I contend that Salah and De Bruyne are both much more talented than Mbappe and Vinicius. That's not the same as saying the RM men cannot have bigger moments in bigger games.

They've probably had bigger moments than Neymar too overall but are they better than him? Or more talented?

Don't give a shit who is more talented really. You don't get any prize for being more talented. If you're more talented, when your team needs you vs PSG last season, you step up.

Or Atletico in 2020. Even vs Barcelona in 2019 he wasn't all that on Camp Nou. He lacks big games in Europe for me to really live up to his potential.

 

[Maradona37]

Don't give a shit who is more talented really. You don't get any prize for being more talented. If you're more talented, when your team needs you vs PSG last season, you step up.

Circumstances dictate a lot in football. That's what you are overlooking.

And no, talent does not always step up.

 

[Maradona37]

I don't mean to be harsh, but as someone who's followed football and played football since the 80s, it absolutely flabbergasts me that people could watch peak De Bruyne play and watch peak Vinicius play and go 'yep,. Vinicius is better'

It's mental. And I am not even as big a De Bruyne fan as some people.

 

[serghei]

I don't mean to be harsh, but as someone who's followed football and played football since the 80s, it absolutely flabbergasts me that people could watch peak De Bruyne play and watch peak Vinicius play and go 'yep,. Vinicius is better'

It's mental.

I view it differently, sorry. For me, even though I like certain styles more than others, it doesn't stop me from valuing players that get the job done in pressure moments. It's one of the hardest thing to do.

Vinicius had this quality at a level Salah did not. If I'm not mistaken, Vinicius was decisive in many games played directly vs Liverpool.

 

[Maradona37]

I view it differently, sorry. For me, even though I like certain styles more than others, it doesn't stop me from valuing players that get the job done in pressure moments. It's one of the hardest thing to do.

Vinicius had this quality at a level Salah did not. If I'm not mistaken, Vinicius was decisive in many games played directly vs Liverpool.

Ok fair enough. But Salah has been great in plenty of big games too. And there's more to football than 'big games' - it's a modern fan thing to go only by that.

I accept your opinion. We will just have to disagree as we clearly think different on certain aspects of football.

'Many games'? It's probably two max. List them.

 

[Maradona37]

Anyway @serghei mate, you are a good lad, I just take issue with some stuff you say and the way you phrase it at times.

I accept the difference in opinion.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Peak Kdb is top5 midfield player of this generation and didnt play with Barca or Real. Salah has been the best offense PL player of this generation imo.

I agree though with Sergh that Barca/Real would probably always be in top4 in PL.

Imagine league with Heynckes Bayern, Pep Barca, 11/12 Real and peak Pep City, that would be top top entertainment

 

[serghei]

Ok fair enough. But Salah has been great in plenty of big games too. And there's more to football than 'big games' - it's a modern fan thing to go only by that.

I accept your opinion. We will just have to disagree as we clearly think different on certain aspects of football.

'Many games'? It's probably two max. List them.

That's pretty impressive to me.

 

[Maradona37]

Yeah it's a good record. But he's the sort of player who stats favours in these things. He's an end product player. No doubt his overall performances were wank in a lot of those games, the Bellingham, Haaland and Cristiano Ronaldo special.

And not to be a cunt, but it looks like three games against Liverpool. Yes, they're not likely to play them much being from different leagues, but it's hardly 'many'. I don't consider three times, even in this context, constituting 'many'.

Unless it's across two legs in one of them. I don't know.

 

[Maradona37]

Imagine league with Heynckes Bayern, Pep Barca, 11/12 Real and peak Pep City, that would be top top entertainment

Farmer's league without Brazil 70 and the local dog and duck team.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

That's pretty impressive to me.

Vini without Mbappe was a beast 🦁

 

[serghei]

Pretty sure Vinicius also had the highest amount of successful dribbles in CL in multiple seasons. Salah is a great player, but unfortunately, he's mostly known for consistency in the league, not for deciding big CL knockouts vs elite sides.