Hans-Dieter Flick

[KingLeo10]

We really need to see out the league win and somehow find a good bench, because that seems to be one of the blunting strategies for Flick's crazy (and amazingly offensive) system.

I just looked at his Bayern 2020 side. They had this XI in the final:

Gnabry - Lewa - Coman
Muller
Thiago - Goretzka
Davies - Alaba - Boateng - Kimmich
Neuer

Now the bench:

Sule
Pavard
Lucas Hernandez
Javi Martinez
Perisic
Even Coutinho

That's a solid bench (except for ST backup) and they had that massive break in season for COVID so they were fresh.

2021:

They're blowing everyone out like 2020 but because of no season break, Lewa breaks down and they crash out and burn.

2025:

Started nosediving in all of Dec after crazy hot start. Then beat the shit out of everyone after Christmas break. And then again nosediving 3-4 months later.

His gameplan/system, which creates so much attacking chances/chaos is basically shit without fresh players. We really need to see the league out this season and add competent bench bodies next season.

 

[KingLeo10]

Everyone knows we don't have quality squad depth, but let's be honest:
There have never been fresh legs in May, even for the most stacked teams.

When title-deciding games are on the line, every manager plays his best 11, no matter the tired legs.

Other factors, such as injuries to crucial pieces, can play a role

08-09 Barca
16-17 RM

RM played a whole different lineup in LL that season and they were actually blitzing people in league while the gala was rested for the CL.

Two of the most stacked and deep squads ever.

 

[serghei]

And if we can't build a long squad filled with quality players, which we probably won't? Aren't you expected as a manager to make adjustments yourself. We're just gonna do the same thing again conceding 3 goals per game come April - May?

Come on...

There's another route you can take to fix some things and don't tank hard like we did. Flick needs to be more realistic and more pragmatic. Even the most elite managers do it.

 

[KingLeo10]

And if we can't build a long squad filled with quality players, which we probably won't? Aren't you expected as a manager to make adjustments yourself. We're just gonna do the same thing again conceding 3 goals per game come April - May?

Come on...

Not saying this is the excuse for Flick. But the patterns are clear to see.

Maybe there's a reason he only lasted ~2 years at Bayern.

 

[serghei]

Not saying this is the excuse for Flick. But the patterns are clear to see.

Maybe there's a reason he only lasted ~2 years at Bayern.

The pattern is clear, if he doesn't change anything, there's a good chance we hit the same problems next season. Can be worse. I remain convinced that this year the path to the final was very convenient for us.

Even if we improve the squad a bit, there's no way he should be doing what he did this season. There's a fine line between being a genius and a delusional fool. Flick is operating right at the limit. Even during the same match sometimes.

This doesn't happen with the elite managers. I haven't seen any elite manager lose a tie from the positon we were in in the 2nd half last night. Not one.

 

[KingLeo10]

The pattern is clear, if he doesn't change anything, there's a good chance we hit the same problems next season. Can be worse. I remain convinced that this year the path to the final was very convenient for us.

Even if we improve the squad a bit, there's no way he should be doing what he did this season. There's a fine line between being a genius and a delusional fool. Flick is operating right at the limit. Even during the same match sometimes.

This doesn't happen with the elite managers.

All the elite managers have examples of where they were inflexible/stubborn and lost big CL games/finals. That's not the issue as much.

Flick's sample size is still small (1 out of 3 seasons with same approach yielded a CL but under very special circumstances). If this happens next season, he begins to fall more into the Arteta category, where yes he'll improve you massively, but he won't get you the big cup trophies. And yes, I don't rate Arsenal in CL this season.

 

[jamrock]

All this tiredness and squad issues could have been avoided If he simple made subs in games we were up 3+ goals in the 2nd half.

Instead he did what he did and we paid the consequences with tired legs and injuries.

 

[KingLeo10]

I haven't seen any elite manager lose a tie from the positon we were in in the 2nd half last night. Not one.

Oh, I really respect your football takes/knowledge most of the time, but should I remind you of our very own Pep Guardiola against RM in 2021/22 season?

Leading 2 goals (not 1) and conceding 2 cheap goals in Min 90 and 91 to fucking Rodygro. And then getting killed by Benz in min 95.

And that's after 12 seasons of CL experience and managing the greatest club side ever

 

[KingLeo10]

Actually it was that RM defeat that made Pep into an Italian manager for the next CL season 22/23 that he won by cynically beating Bayern and RM and Inter in the KOs

 

[jamrock]

Oh, I really respect your football takes/knowledge most of the time, but should I remind you of our very own Pep Guardiola against RM in 2021/22 season?

Leading 2 goals (not 1) and conceding 2 cheap goals in Min 90 and 91 to fucking Rodygro. And then getting killed by Benz in min 95.

And that's after 12 seasons of CL experience and managing the greatest club side ever

That's just Madrid Voodoo and Cancelo TBH 😂.

He was actually trying to defend unlike us yesterday, but cancelo for walked made that impossible.

 

[serghei]

Oh, I really respect your football takes/knowledge most of the time, but should I remind you of our very own Pep Guardiola against RM in 2021/22 season?

Leading 2 goals (not 1) and conceding 2 cheap goals in Min 90 and 91 to fucking Rodygro. And then getting killed by Benz in min 95.

And that's after 12 seasons of CL experience and managing the greatest club side ever

It's not the same for me. You have Milan vs Liverpool in CL final of 2005, Bayern vs United in 1999, many examples of losing from advantageous position. But not coming back from behind, breaking the spirit of the opponent, and then gifting it back to him.

What I'm saying would be like a Liverpool meltdown after making it 3-3 and gifting it to Milan in 2005 in the final. Or on the contrary, Madrid scoring the winner vs some team in a remontada, and then gifting it back to them.

Imagine Madrid allowing City 2 cheap goals after Benzema scored the 3-1 in extra time vs City. That never happens at the elite level.

Something of a reverse remontada in the same match . Once you achieve a remontada, it takes something special to lose momentum and allow the other team to turn you around in the same match.

I'm not finding any other similar situation in the history of CL that can compare with our affair last night. Probably because any team that is achieving a huge remontada goes full beast mode to protect it. Doesn't naively let the door open for the opponent to sneak back in and have the last word.

 

[KingLeo10]

It's not the same for me. You have Milan vs Liverpool in CL final of 2005, Bayern vs United in 1999, many examples of losing from advantageous position. But not coming back from behind, breaking the spirit of the opponent, and then gifting it back to him.

What I'm saying would be like a Liverpool meltdown after making it 3-3 and gifting it to Milan in 2005 in the final. Or on the contrary, Madrid scoring the winner vs some team in a remontada, and then gifting it back to them.

Imagine Madrid allowing City 2 cheap goals after Benzema scored the 3-1 in extra time vs City. That never happens at the elite level.

Something of a reverse remontada in the same match . Once you achieve a remontada, it takes something special to lose momentum and allow the other team to turn you around in the same match.

Maybe there's some other uniquely useless remontada like our performance last night, but I'm not finding any that is even remotely similar.

More than 0 if you start looking for it. Of course you won't find a 1 for 1 replica, because teams find new ways to blow it or clutch it.

Juve come back from 0-3 down to make it 3-3 at the Bernabeu in 2018 only to blow it last min (or get robbed by refs) for 4-3. Guess what, we were robbed on that equalizer too.

It's the nature of high leverage cup games.

 

[serghei]

More than 0 if you start looking for it. Of course you won't find a 1 for 1 replica, because teams find new ways to blow it or clutch it.

Juve come back from 0-3 down to make it 3-3 at the Bernabeu in 2018 only to blow it last min (or get robbed by refs) for 4-3. Guess what, we were robbed on that equalizer too.

It's the nature of high leverage cup games.

It's not in the same match.

 

[KingLeo10]

By the way, achieving a 3 goal comeback from 0-3 down v that RM CL team with all of its stars is a way tougher feat than v Inter.

 

[KingLeo10]

It's not in the same match.

Yeah, I'm going to peace out of the conversation. You have this tendency to get obtuse and dance around semantics. I just gave you a glaring example of a remontada blown last min after coming back from 0-3 to 3-3 on an opponent's stadium and now you pull this technicality.

When I already said you never find 1 to 1 examples of any CL blown chances or remontadas.

No shit