F
Flavia
Guest
That's on the role he's playing, too wide and covering for Alves. Iniesta is also suffering because of this, though his form is bad atm.
Champions League: PSG - FC Barcelona 3-2
- Thread starter DonAK
- Start date
That's on the role he's playing, too wide and covering for Alves. Iniesta is also suffering because of this, though his form is bad atm.
SeloBarca
Senior Member
I actually think PSG without zlatan works better against Barcelona.
Key to beating barcelona is quick counterattacks, something Zlatan is not good at. Cavani, although messing up some chances, is a better counterattacker together with Lucas and Pastore (Lavezzi also good at it)
i_bleed_blaugrana
Senior Member
I think a lot of it had to do with Lucho's line-up. I went back and watched the first half just now, I had class earlier and could only catch the 2nd half but honestly from what I saw, we really didn't play that poorly at all barring the mental mistakes. Both of their goals off of set pieces were very preventable, particularly Luiz's goal. Why Mascherano was marking Luiz is beyond me and MaTS had a judgement error as well for Verratti's goal.
Again, Pique would have been a better choice than Mascherano for this match and I think with Pique in for Masch, at least one of those goals is prevented. He has looked solid so far this season and its clear that while Mascherano is still a great player, we simply cannot afford the mistakes he makes at the back.
Tactically speaking, this was a game that perhaps Xavi should have started as well. This game needed precision since both teams were playing attacking football and I think Xavi would have offered more control and more incisiveness than Rakitic, who probably had his worst game this season. No slight against him but perhaps we should save him for when we need more muscle and steel in the midfield.
Icarium
Lifestealer
I don't know maybe it is just me this was not a embarrassing result by any means. It was average display with series of individual mistakes. There are some changes to be done I agree but players gave their all to comeback. We were always chasing the game. It was hard. Set pieces well we now know problems are still there. If our players were more alert we could have won this match easily. And I prefer winning matches like this. Both teams trying to score. Lately it is either stale possession leading to nothing or simple routs. I am just tired of it. These are the matches I hope to see of course minus defensive errors. That too they are very basic. Masch taking over luiz? Rakitic to mark 3 people? And busi had a horrible game. That is the main reason and our full backs did not defend. This is the problems with gk rotations. There is no chemistry. Midfield playing too wide is also a problem. But I think it can be corrected. Except our inability to defend set pieces everything can be corrected.
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Sent from my Lumia 900 using Tapatalk
Gaudi
Senior Member
Worrying is that same problems exists for years now, but it's still not time to panic all call out Lucho. Let's see how he answers those problems.
2 problems yesterday that I saw, though not just for yesterday's game:
1. our pressing is actually very bad. Pressing is dangerous if you don't do it as a unit. 2-3 guys pressing, rest standing back, this opens huuuuuuge holes in our defence. Either you press or don't.
2. 4-3-3 defending seems to be the tactic our opposition will use against us. This is like a 3 line block, and for that you need to move more, we are so static. Problem is that to many players dwell on the ball, to many wants the ball played only in their feet.
Messi, Ney, Iniesta, Busi, Alves...now, Messi can do it, because he is magical but rest either can't or should be limited. Ney can produce magic as well but EVERY TIME he gets the ball it's 2-4 step overs slowing the game to a halt. Alves does the same and he is a freaking fullback. Even if he manages to cross afterwards it doesn't matter anymore as entire defence is well positioned already. Best chances we had was after faster ball (for example Ney backheel..).
Those 2 things are very important because we look to offer easy chances to opposition and have a hard time creating our chances. I saw here that some people belive that opponents play lighter against rm (for example), hope this delusion is not shared by Lucho or our team because we need to change and adapt finally or "our philosophy" is done. Yesterday PSG even showed us quick tiki taka.
2 problems yesterday that I saw, though not just for yesterday's game:
1. our pressing is actually very bad. Pressing is dangerous if you don't do it as a unit. 2-3 guys pressing, rest standing back, this opens huuuuuuge holes in our defence. Either you press or don't.
2. 4-3-3 defending seems to be the tactic our opposition will use against us. This is like a 3 line block, and for that you need to move more, we are so static. Problem is that to many players dwell on the ball, to many wants the ball played only in their feet.
Messi, Ney, Iniesta, Busi, Alves...now, Messi can do it, because he is magical but rest either can't or should be limited. Ney can produce magic as well but EVERY TIME he gets the ball it's 2-4 step overs slowing the game to a halt. Alves does the same and he is a freaking fullback. Even if he manages to cross afterwards it doesn't matter anymore as entire defence is well positioned already. Best chances we had was after faster ball (for example Ney backheel..).
Those 2 things are very important because we look to offer easy chances to opposition and have a hard time creating our chances. I saw here that some people belive that opponents play lighter against rm (for example), hope this delusion is not shared by Lucho or our team because we need to change and adapt finally or "our philosophy" is done. Yesterday PSG even showed us quick tiki taka.
Neeraj
Senior Member
I was one of the very few on here quite concerned when we drew PSG, and seems like justifiably so. There were way too many people here who thought PSG is going to be a push over for us..I think this was extremely naive. Not having a great start in the league doesn't mean jack. Madrid had a pathetic start too, so what, you'd expect teams to thrash them in the CL? This was always going to be a difficult game..
About the game itself, I think the lack of pressing the 'space' was alarming, as it was letting the opposition bypass our midfield with one simple pass. The midfielder nearest to the ball generally went to the ball, leaving a huge gap through which they just sauntered through. I'm not quite sure why we press well in some games and don't in others, because pressing has nothing to do with form..it's simple hard work that's it.
Alba had a poor game today, but I wouldn't be as harsh on him as he is generally quite good, but Alves...Jeez..For a team who's entire system revolves on the FBs unlocking space that doesn't exist in the midfield, we have a shocking shocking liability in Alves. Biscuits has been quite poor for too long a while now, only having good games every now or then, and this is a problem. With our ridiculous "Masch as CB no matter who/what" policy, we don't even seem to have any viable alternative to bench him.
We have a lot of issues to sort out, in attack, defence as well as midfield, and I'm hoping these are done ASAP. I'd say a realistic target would be to reach the semis this season, but that may not be an easy task.
About the game itself, I think the lack of pressing the 'space' was alarming, as it was letting the opposition bypass our midfield with one simple pass. The midfielder nearest to the ball generally went to the ball, leaving a huge gap through which they just sauntered through. I'm not quite sure why we press well in some games and don't in others, because pressing has nothing to do with form..it's simple hard work that's it.
Alba had a poor game today, but I wouldn't be as harsh on him as he is generally quite good, but Alves...Jeez..For a team who's entire system revolves on the FBs unlocking space that doesn't exist in the midfield, we have a shocking shocking liability in Alves. Biscuits has been quite poor for too long a while now, only having good games every now or then, and this is a problem. With our ridiculous "Masch as CB no matter who/what" policy, we don't even seem to have any viable alternative to bench him.
We have a lot of issues to sort out, in attack, defence as well as midfield, and I'm hoping these are done ASAP. I'd say a realistic target would be to reach the semis this season, but that may not be an easy task.
FC B
Senior Member
I agree Neeraj. Few including myself thought that this would be the real first test of the season and not Bilbao "the CL team" wihch is on the 16th place out of 20 in la liga btw. The defense shown great flaws against top oposition as I and a few others feared but I never thought we'd concieve 3 goals at Parc de Princes and the sad part is we could have been punished much more if it weren't for that overrated Cavani...
People said PSG is shit, etc. As a matter fact Barca was shit both tactically and individually. Lucho also made a few serious errors. But it is better this occured now in the second round of the CL because it is still time to make it right rather than later in the campaign.
1. When, if ever our managers will fucking learn Masche isn't a natural CB and play him as a DM since Busquets is often poor especially in away tough games ?!
2. Why put MAtS to play only his second game at the club in a difficult game against PSG at Parc de Princes ?
3. Why Busquets is still "an untouchable" ?
4. Why can't we play with TWO TALL freaking natural CBs for the Christ sake ?
5. Pedro was very poor but Lucho didn't have a right replacement for him in this particular game. He couldn't have started Sandro or Munir in such an away match.
People said PSG is shit, etc. As a matter fact Barca was shit both tactically and individually. Lucho also made a few serious errors. But it is better this occured now in the second round of the CL because it is still time to make it right rather than later in the campaign.
1. When, if ever our managers will fucking learn Masche isn't a natural CB and play him as a DM since Busquets is often poor especially in away tough games ?!
2. Why put MAtS to play only his second game at the club in a difficult game against PSG at Parc de Princes ?
3. Why Busquets is still "an untouchable" ?
4. Why can't we play with TWO TALL freaking natural CBs for the Christ sake ?
5. Pedro was very poor but Lucho didn't have a right replacement for him in this particular game. He couldn't have started Sandro or Munir in such an away match.
Neimax
New member
I think we shuld play with the following lineup in big games:
Bravo
Alves Vermaelen Mathieu Alba
Mascherano
Rakitic/Xavi Iniesta/Rafinha
Messi
Suarez Neymar
I think offensively we can outscore every opponent with this attack. We only have to improve our pressure and our movement without the ball when we are in possession. Defensively we would be much more compact if we would play with Masche instead of Busi (even though I am still a big fan of Busi). With Vermaelen as a CB we would have a player who is good with his head. I think if he gets to his best again, he could be a beast and be really valuable for Barcelona. I would also choose Bravo instead of Ter Stegen. Maybe Ter Stegen is the better sweeper keeper, but Bravo made a great impression to me until now, espeacially when it comes to catch high balls (for example corners or free kicks from the side). In the midfield, I hope Iniesta gets in form again, otherwise I would try to incorporate Rafinha more and more. Rakitic had a bad game yesterday, but I think he can do better.
Bravo
Alves Vermaelen Mathieu Alba
Mascherano
Rakitic/Xavi Iniesta/Rafinha
Messi
Suarez Neymar
I think offensively we can outscore every opponent with this attack. We only have to improve our pressure and our movement without the ball when we are in possession. Defensively we would be much more compact if we would play with Masche instead of Busi (even though I am still a big fan of Busi). With Vermaelen as a CB we would have a player who is good with his head. I think if he gets to his best again, he could be a beast and be really valuable for Barcelona. I would also choose Bravo instead of Ter Stegen. Maybe Ter Stegen is the better sweeper keeper, but Bravo made a great impression to me until now, espeacially when it comes to catch high balls (for example corners or free kicks from the side). In the midfield, I hope Iniesta gets in form again, otherwise I would try to incorporate Rafinha more and more. Rakitic had a bad game yesterday, but I think he can do better.
BarçAjax8
New member
Honestly this loss felt like a good kick in the stomach. This was our first big test of the season and we didn't come out of it well. After re-watching the highlights there isn't any cause for panic, the goals were conceded down to bad line-up changes. Mascherano shouldn't have been covering Luiz, Rakitic should have picked up Veratti and Jordi Alba should have tracked Van der Wiel to prevent that cross. On top of that this was too big a match to bring in MaTS.
Some causes for concern:
1. Mascherano still being used as CB... the Luiz goal could have been prevented had Pique or Bartra been covering Luiz.
2. Lucas absolutely owned Jordi today and not because he outran him but because Lucas was able to use his height to bring down lob passes. I think this would have been a good match to have a Dani - Bartra - Pique - Mathieu backline.
Glad this came early in the season and hope Lucho makes the necessary changes :barca scarf:
Some causes for concern:
1. Mascherano still being used as CB... the Luiz goal could have been prevented had Pique or Bartra been covering Luiz.
2. Lucas absolutely owned Jordi today and not because he outran him but because Lucas was able to use his height to bring down lob passes. I think this would have been a good match to have a Dani - Bartra - Pique - Mathieu backline.
Glad this came early in the season and hope Lucho makes the necessary changes :barca scarf:
Capitan Puyol
Senior Member
Terrible defence...
rixxer
New member
Overreactions, overreactions everywhere...
One of those situations, where missing key players makes an opponent even better, because they know that they cannot rely on their superstar and have to take responsibility, plus, they really played like they have point to prove for the fans and journos etc. Moura, Pastore, Luiz etc that have been awful this season (thats what I have been reading lately) put up spectacular performance. And van der Wiel as well.
And still, we weren't second best in this match, cannot claim we were better team, but apart from individual defensive and some passing mistakes, Barca was still creating and putting pressure on opponent despite being two goals behind.
But. I haven't witnessed a game this year where half of the starting team would get negative mark in the end, but this game was exactly that: rakitic, Alves, Pedro (jesus...how bad was this), Busquets, Alba, Mats- all of them were playing below par and this is telling. For me it was not that much about tactics but it really seemed to me that we were overconfident and did not expect PSG to play so forcefully and from the heart. Alarm bell went off, but too late.
Sandro and Munir did good even againts top defenders, Xavi was at improvement over Rakitic and Mascherano, despite his fatal mistake, was again immense in the second half. Those were positives.
One of those situations, where missing key players makes an opponent even better, because they know that they cannot rely on their superstar and have to take responsibility, plus, they really played like they have point to prove for the fans and journos etc. Moura, Pastore, Luiz etc that have been awful this season (thats what I have been reading lately) put up spectacular performance. And van der Wiel as well.
And still, we weren't second best in this match, cannot claim we were better team, but apart from individual defensive and some passing mistakes, Barca was still creating and putting pressure on opponent despite being two goals behind.
But. I haven't witnessed a game this year where half of the starting team would get negative mark in the end, but this game was exactly that: rakitic, Alves, Pedro (jesus...how bad was this), Busquets, Alba, Mats- all of them were playing below par and this is telling. For me it was not that much about tactics but it really seemed to me that we were overconfident and did not expect PSG to play so forcefully and from the heart. Alarm bell went off, but too late.
Sandro and Munir did good even againts top defenders, Xavi was at improvement over Rakitic and Mascherano, despite his fatal mistake, was again immense in the second half. Those were positives.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Against tougher teams, we would be even less creative, I am afraid.
Imagine a midfield consisted of Masch (who isn't a passing genius like Busi) - Rakitic (covering for Alves) - and (out of form) Iniesta.
You can't get Tiki-Taka and magic with that trio.
Offensively, it would be even more painful to watch than matches against Malaga and Psg yesterday.
Messi would have to drop even deeper and Alves would cross even more.
With this squad (with Suarez), a realistic target should be challenging to win the CL. Nothing else. It is a squad packed with world-class players (although Iniesta, Busquets, Alves aren't performing to their level) so anything less is a failure on the part of the coach.
Some observations and thoughts about last night:
- Lucho really needs to integrate Pique back into being a first-choice CB. It's shocking if he is allowed to simply slide into obscurity at Barca. He's got everything (especially the height we need back there) but just needs to be coaxed back to his best.
- Iniesta shouldn't always be immune to criticism. He hasn't performed great over a full 90 minutes for a long time bar the odd game here or there. Sometimes it's like he couldn't even hit a barn door with his shots. Last night he had one great chance to score and another half chance but completely mis-kicked.
- Ter Stegen is still the future GK for Barca obviously. I actually think he needs to be integrated into being a starter asap, he has huge potential and, crucially, is an inch and a half taller than Bravo. Seeing him thrown in at the deep end last night then criticising him is harsh to say the least.
- The only justification for Lucho setting out the team wrongly last night I can think of is this: Barca came into the game in form, PSG seemed terribly out of form and lacking a goal threat with their lack of goals. In hindsight, the correct way to approach the game was more cautiously and with more control of the ball. But given the context before the game started, it is understandable to some extent why Lucho would think Barca had a chance of rolling PSG over and keep the set-up they have been using on and off in La Liga, where it has been so effective.
Barcilliant
Senior Member
I am surprised that this match thread isn't 50 pages by now-lol!!!!!!!!!!!
When ever there is a Barca loss-especially in the CL or against RM there is a major meltdown!
I suppose a lot of what I have to say has been said but I will give my 2 cents anyway.............
LUIS ENRIQUE-there was no imagination or tactics on display there. His lineup was RUBBISH! He thought he could go there and wipe the park with PSG. 4-3-3 with Alves, Mascherano & Alba at the back against a strong, physical side who counter attack well.
Why didn't we see something like Adriano, Pique, Batra & Mathieu as the back 4???
Why could he not try something different like
Adriano Pique Batra Mathieu
Mascherano Busquets
Rakitic Messi Iniesta
Neymar.
The golden rule in CL football is MINIMISE errors. If you keep it tight your opportunities to score will come.
Also I didn't see Lucho off the bench yelling at his players.
For me the BIGGEST worry is the midfield. It used to be our midfield that dominated and dictated the pace of the game. Now Iniesta is inconsistent, Busquets is consistently poor and Rakitic is still new to the club. On the bench we have an ordinary Roberto, old Xavi and someone else who I cant even remember. Our biggest mistake was not pursuing a top class box to box midfielder like Pogba or Vidal. Fuck, I'd even take someone like Matuidi or Ramires to inject some steam into the engine. Our midfield has looked pretty ordinary for a couple of seasons now.
Honestly, I cant see us making the semis. The quarters maybe but our best chance of a proper trophy is La Liga.
When ever there is a Barca loss-especially in the CL or against RM there is a major meltdown!
I suppose a lot of what I have to say has been said but I will give my 2 cents anyway.............
LUIS ENRIQUE-there was no imagination or tactics on display there. His lineup was RUBBISH! He thought he could go there and wipe the park with PSG. 4-3-3 with Alves, Mascherano & Alba at the back against a strong, physical side who counter attack well.
Why didn't we see something like Adriano, Pique, Batra & Mathieu as the back 4???
Why could he not try something different like
Adriano Pique Batra Mathieu
Mascherano Busquets
Rakitic Messi Iniesta
Neymar.
The golden rule in CL football is MINIMISE errors. If you keep it tight your opportunities to score will come.
Also I didn't see Lucho off the bench yelling at his players.
For me the BIGGEST worry is the midfield. It used to be our midfield that dominated and dictated the pace of the game. Now Iniesta is inconsistent, Busquets is consistently poor and Rakitic is still new to the club. On the bench we have an ordinary Roberto, old Xavi and someone else who I cant even remember. Our biggest mistake was not pursuing a top class box to box midfielder like Pogba or Vidal. Fuck, I'd even take someone like Matuidi or Ramires to inject some steam into the engine. Our midfield has looked pretty ordinary for a couple of seasons now.
Honestly, I cant see us making the semis. The quarters maybe but our best chance of a proper trophy is La Liga.
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