Ballon d'Or 2025

Birdy

Birdy

Senior Member
raskolnikov said:
Rivaldo was amazing. Carried barca back then.
Other than him Keane had a better shout over Becks imo
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Rivaldo actually carried barca a few years after that, when he was scoring scissors kick at the last moment against Valencia to secure UCL spot.

On the contrary, the 1997-99 team under LVG was well drilled, and Rivaldo was not carrying anyone
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
Birdy said:
La Liga is fine, but UTD won the treble.
Can't be compared

Also, I will write it again: people stop counting Copa America as an important trophy.
Won by either Brazil or Argentina 95% of the times, and should not be a factor in Ballon D Or votes.
Especially those years, when you had Copa America every 2 years
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Actually Uruguay have won the Copa America far more than Brazil have. It goes 16 Argentina, 15 Uruguay, 9 Brazil.

But I understand you mean in recent times. So I am being a bit naughty, lol.
 
Birdy

Birdy

Senior Member
Maradona37 said:
Actually I remember watching that season the whole way through, and the general consensus was that Keane and Beckham outperformed Giggs and Scholes across the whole season in that midfield (though most agreed Giggs and Scholes were very good too). I believe you are seriously under-crediting Keane and the effect he had on those other United players, as well as his leadership qualities. I don't like Keane by the way - he's a knob - but he was a great player and in that season particularly was a real force of nature.

I can't disagree that Iniesta was excellent in 2010 and of course he has a compelling case with being better than Messi in the World Cup and scoring the winner in the final. But I still believe Messi was better across the season. But if you put a lot of weight on big moments, then sure Iniesta has a real good case.

Fair point, but other than the Bundesliga, what did Robert do? He won the German title, as he and Bayern always did. He didn't do much in the CL or anywhere else. It was a rather weak year but I think Messi still deserved it overall (mainly for the fact that his all-round game is always vastly superior to Robert's). I also would disagree about the Copa America - it's not as prestigious as the Euros now, but it is still older than both the World Cup and the Euros and a big, important tournament to win. It's not the Nations League.

I agree with you that Cristiano Ronaldo won three he didn't deserve to by the way (Ribery, Suarez, Salah). He did deserve it in 2008 and 2014 though (despite being woeful in the Brazilian World Cup).

Overall, I am not that bothered - it doesn't affect my life and I have very little regard for individual awards in football anyway. Just a friendly debate there :)
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2021 was a strange season.
Issue is that if you go by numbers and best player overall, you have to give it to Lewa
If you go by important tittles, you have to give it to Joringho who won Euro and CL as pillar of both teams in the DM.
At the end, they gave it to Messi for sentimental reasons, because he wasn't the best by numbers, not the best by important titles
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
Birdy said:
2021 was a strange season.
Issue is that if you go by numbers and best player overall, you have to give it to Lewa
If you go by important tittles, you have to give it to Joringho who won Euro and CL as pillar of both teams in the DM.
At the end, they gave it to Messi for sentimental reasons, because he wasn't the best by numbers, not the best by important titles
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Yeah I understand that.

My argument is that Messi was better in general play and by other, deeper metrics than just G/A.

I suppose the issue with this though is that it would mean Messi wins it every year by default simply by being the best player, and it invalidates the idea that trophies and goals/assists should have weight too. In essence Messi could win nothing every year and still win it simply by being the most impactful player in general play. In saying that he always gets really good G/A too, even post prime.

It all depends on the criteria for the award. I am aware I am not in a position of power and don't decide, but my own personal belief is (bearing in mind I don't really care anyway as not a fan of individual awards in football) that it should go to the player with the best general play (and hopefully that leads to trophies too). But I accept it can be more abstract to give that player it every season (and it would always be Messi anyway as he is the GOAT, as Don alluded to earlier in the thread here).
 
Don Juan Laporta Estruch

Don Juan Laporta Estruch

Basta yaaaaaaa, Cabron ! y Bona nit 🥂
Birdy said:
2021 was a strange season.
Issue is that if you go by numbers and best player overall, you have to give it to Lewa
If you go by important tittles, you have to give it to Joringho who won Euro and CL as pillar of both teams in the DM.
At the end, they gave it to Messi for sentimental reasons, because he wasn't the best by numbers, not the best by important titles
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But he was the best when in a combination of the two. ( Performance and trophies )

Which is the criteria nowadays, that they initially changed to stop Messi winning it every year when it was heavily weighted to the best player regardless of trophies.
 
MagIX

MagIX

Senior Member
Maradona37 said:
Actually Uruguay have won the Copa America far more than Brazil have. It goes 16 Argentina, 15 Uruguay, 9 Brazil.

But I understand you mean in recent times. So I am being a bit naughty, lol.
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Starting from the modern era of football , so not counting prehistoric times , Argentina has won the CA roughly every 30 years: in 1959, 1991/93, and 2021/24. It's strange that Maradona, even though he took part in “only” 3 CA, never won it: in fact, he never even reached a final, not even in 1987 with the team that had just won the 1986 WC. Ironically, after he was disqualified for drug use (1991), Argentina went on to win two consecutive CA (91 and 93)
 
Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
MagIX said:
Starting from the modern era of football , so not counting prehistoric times , Argentina has won the CA roughly every 30 years: in 1959, 1991/93, and 2021/24. It's strange that Maradona, even though he took part in “only” 3 CA, never won it: in fact, he never even reached a final, not even in 1987 with the team that had just won the 1986 WC. Ironically, after he was disqualified for drug use (1991), Argentina went on to win two consecutive CA (91 and 93)
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Yeah, good point - Argentina and Uruguay were much more dominant in the early days, especially when Uruguay were de facto 'World Champions' - due to the Olympics - in the years before the inaugural World Cup in 1930. Brazil didn't really become a world force until 1950, and even then they had 'Maracanazo'. They won three Copa America pre 1950 and then it took them forty years to win another. So it makes sense that Argentina and Uruguay won more in, as you call it 'prehistoric times'.

it's one of those quirks about a great player - another is that Northern Ireland qualified for the World Cup after George Best's career, but never when he played for them.
 
Birdy

Birdy

Senior Member
Don Juan Laporta Estruch said:
But he was the best when in a combination of the two. ( Performance and trophies )

Which is the criteria nowadays, that they initially changed to stop Messi winning it every year when it was heavily weighted to the best player regardless of trophies.
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There is no such combination of the two that gives always the results you want.
You have to chose either of the two to be the decisive factor

You say they changed it to not to always give it to Messi. Yet, in 2019, after they had changed it for that reason supposedly, they gave it to Messi and not VVD

Ballon D Or is rigged, not by some committee, but by the voters who cannot vote by consistent criteria
 
CatalinR10

CatalinR10

Senior Member
Birdy said:
Happens that the criteria for Ballon D Or, or any award of that kind, have to be universal, and not specifically tailor-made for 'Barca Legends'
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Yeah , I'm sure you would like all the criteria to be for your fitting , that is whatever it takes for Barcelona players to not win

Birdy said:
Get a grip
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No I won't get a grip because I hate undercover madridista scum like you

Suck my dick Barcelona hating faggot
 
Birdy

Birdy

Senior Member
CatalinR10 said:
Yeah , I'm sure you would like all the criteria to be for your fitting , that is whatever it takes for Barcelona players to not win



No I won't get a grip because I hate undercover madridista scum like you

Suck my dick Barcelona hating faggot
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Yeah my dude. Sure.
I don't want Barca players to win, I hate them so much :lol:

At this fuckn forum we have at least 20 or 30 supposedly Barca fans that twerk for every unfair Madrid CL win, and here is a clown thinking that calling for consistent Ballon D Or criteria means being an 'undercover Madritista' :clown:
 
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