Arthur

[Red Jericho]

Apparently, Juventus is paying Fiorentina to take him.

 

[Red Jericho]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1682315316716527616

 

[Red Jericho]

@Rory
Here is a highlight of that match. Focus on the first half and see how many chances that we had and failed to convert. And tell me how Arthur's presence would have helped us. All we needed was a single away goal and not keeping the ball and making back passes

 

[Rory]

@Rory
Here is a highlight of that match. Focus on the first half and see how many chances that we had and failed to convert. And tell me how Arthur's presence would have helped us. All we needed was a single away goal and not keeping the ball and making back passes

It's not about Arthur would have won us the game, we probably lose anyway. It's that Rakitic was abysmal and we needed a different profile on the ball. Based off Arthur's performances for us his specific niche skillset may have provided that, regardless of how capable he is in other ways.

I also quite clearly said that we missed several chances too.

 

[Porque]

Apparently, Juventus is paying Fiorentina to take him.

Completely normal.

Arthur had talent. Lacked professionalism, and possibly has natural stamina issues. But I wonder if that is just his professionalism with the hookers, drinking and smoking.

Wasted player, but the club were correct in their initial persuit and scouting.

Only thing wrong was that he excelled in Brazil as a double pivot (as most teams play) and we were far from the setup.

Not good enough in the end, but not our costliest mistake either.

 

[Red Jericho]

Completely normal.

Arthur had talent. Lacked professionalism, and possibly has natural stamina issues. But I wonder if that is just his professionalism with the hookers, drinking and smoking.

Wasted player, but the club were correct in their initial persuit and scouting.

Only thing wrong was that he excelled in Brazil as a double pivot (as most teams play) and we were far from the setup.

Not good enough in the end, but not our costliest mistake either.

If he lacked professionalism and had stamina issues, how is that good scouting? No top club would sign a player that had poor stamina, neither would they sign one that had off-the-pitch issues.

It was wrong to pursue him in the first place, he has nothing that a top club needs. He's had his chance here, at Juventus and at Liverpool and he still didn't make it. If the scouts were right about him then he should have made it at one of those clubs. Now he's a player who no one wants and Juventus are willing to pay part of his salary to get rid of him

 

[Red Jericho]

It's not about Arthur would have won us the game, we probably lose anyway. It's that Rakitic was abysmal and we needed a different profile on the ball. Based off Arthur's performances for us his specific niche skillset may have provided that, regardless of how capable he is in other ways.

I also quite clearly said that we missed several chances too.

1. If we would have lost anyway, then what's the point of playing Arthur?

2. Rakitic was not responsible for the result in that game. Only reason people blame him is because it was popular at the time to label him the scapegoat for everything that went wrong. Swap Rakitic for Arthur and nothing changes. Sure, Arthur might be better on the ball but that wouldn't have solved any of our problems in that game. None of those goals Liverpool scored were as a result of Rakitic's mistakes, so I don't really see what replacing Rakitic with Arthur would have achieved

 

[Porque]

If he lacked professionalism and had stamina issues, how is that good scouting? No top club would sign a player that had poor stamina, neither would they sign one that had off-the-pitch issues.

It was wrong to pursue him in the first place, he has nothing that a top club needs. He's had his chance here, at Juventus and at Liverpool and he still didn't make it. If the scouts were right about him then he should have made it at one of those clubs. Now he's a player who no one wants and Juventus are willing to pay part of his salary to get rid of him

Because he regressed after moving to a top European club. Mixed in with probably not being good enough. Some players will struggle to mentally adapt to the highest level, or fall into their cruxes when they think they have made it. Part of the reason Koeman went against Trincao was seeing him pulling up in training driving a Lamborghini just after moving here. Who can expect that?

Somethings you can't expect as good as the scouting and mental checks.

Arthur at 21 from Gremio for 30m looked a good bet in 2018. We were certainly in a position where 30m on a decent wage would not be a big gamble.

 

[Red Jericho]

Because he regressed after moving to a top European club. Mixed in with probably not being good enough. Some players will struggle to mentally adapt to the highest level, or fall into their cruxes when they think they have made it. Part of the reason Koeman went against Trincao was seeing him pulling up in training driving a Lamborghini just after moving here. Who can expect that?

Somethings you can't expect as good as the scouting and mental checks.

Arthur at 21 from Gremio for 30m looked a good bet in 2018. We were certainly in a position where 30m on a decent wage would not be a big gamble.

Fair enough. I just didn't think he was ever that good. The hype around him on Reddit was insane at the time

 

[vegitot]

Conte would've achieved the same things here with that squad if not more.

Conte is a big loser in Europe. And he always ends up fighting against his own club.

 

[Rory]

1. If we would have lost anyway, then what's the point of playing Arthur?

2. Rakitic was not responsible for the result in that game. Only reason people blame him is because it was popular at the time to label him the scapegoat for everything that went wrong. Swap Rakitic for Arthur and nothing changes. Sure, Arthur might be better on the ball but that wouldn't have solved any of our problems in that game. None of those goals Liverpool scored were as a result of Rakitic's mistakes, so I don't really see what replacing Rakitic with Arthur would have achieved

there's losing and there's losing. 1-0 we go through , 2-0 we go through, 3-0 who knows what happens. 4-0 we're humiliated. Rakitic isn't the scapegoat, he was awful and some of his moments in the game resulted in that increased pressure that ended up in a goal. Wasn't the only poor performer that night, as has been said by me and pretty much everyone else.

 

[L3v1s]

Conte is a big loser in Europe. And he always ends up fighting against his own club.

Honestly, seeing everything that happened to this club in the last years, I would've preferred a guy who went out like Conte, saying things how they are... While Valverde was not the only one to be blamed for our losses, he clearly was part of the problem by being a yes-man to the amigos. Now, if we look at his spell, we can't say he was a terrible manager, rather an average one, though clearly not fit to lead us to higher things. He hasn't achieved anything notable either at previous clubs, and this was his big chance at a big club. Another reason why I remember Valverde in a more negative way sometimes is because of all those smugs he showed when we were losing, many times just standing there like a ghost... Guess it was just a sign of self defeat or incompetence, knowing that he was outclassed by the opponent team. Clearly not the person who'd make a dressing room freeze when he enters.

 

[khaled_a_d]

In 1-2 years he'll be loaned/sold to Sassuolo, Empoli, Verona.
That's the natural progress of things.


Arthur is another example of how success in football is way more than a few shiny passes and nice movement.
He was a player with a horrible professionalism, bad physical attributes and being very injury prone.

That's rather optimistic, my guess is that he will be back in Brasil once his contract is over with Juve.

I would say Arthur is a case of people valuing profile without being able to determine quality.

Remember Jean Michaël Ser? The African Xavi? Club was close to get him before Arthur became of his style, thankfully our scouts veto the deal and we didn't make it.

Let's say a player X could play identically like Xavi, but being 1 second too late than Xavi, with passes being few centimetres less accurate than Xavi. You watch the player couple of times and you think he is Xavi heir,but once play full time in top level you realise how awful he is at top level.