Arthur

[defyqa]

Croatians still hating Brazilians I see.

 

[BBZ8800]

Croatians still hating Brazilians I see.

Paulinho?

So maybe it is not about Brazilians but about players who just aren't as good as others think.

Some guys already asked, I will ask the same:
Is there anyone here from Brazil or who watched a lot of Arthur's matches?

Since we are watching only these youtube videos with 2-3 dribbles and passes.
Remember, even Seri looked like a mix of Maradona and Xavi on Youtube compilations and on 30 seconds twitter videos (I am exaggerating).
But when we started to watch his actual matches, it turned out that he has a stamina of a 60 years old grandpa.
His passes were still good though, but Youtube clips didn't tell us the whole story about his allround game.

 

[Barcaman]

Croatians still hating Brazilians I see.

What?

 

[Raketa10]

Croatians still hating Brazilians I see.

What? Dude look at my avatar.

We are debating if he is good enough or not, we don’t care about his nationality! I am sure there isn’t any Croat here who wouldn’t be happy if we sign Coutinho for example.

 

[Horatio]

Croatians still hating Brazilians I see.

It's just Neymar for what he did to Croatia in WC 2014.

 

[Felipetonelo]

Paulinho?

So maybe it is not about Brazilians but about players who just aren't as good as others think.

Some guys already asked, I will ask the same:
Is there anyone here from Brazil or who watched a lot of Arthur's matches?

Since we are watching only these youtube videos with 2-3 dribbles and passes.
Remember, even Seri looked like a mix of Maradona and Xavi on Youtube compilations and on 30 seconds twitter videos (I am exaggerating).
But when we started to watch his actual matches, it turned out that he has a stamina of a 60 years old grandpa.
His passes were still good though, but Youtube clips didn't tell us the whole story about his allround game.

I'm from Brazil and I am a Gremio supporter. I've seen him playing about 45 games, 25 live at Arena, and he is much better than highlights can suggest, you can't see the best of him on TV or Youtube. He is the best young player in Brazil at the moment and here people who watched Ronaldinho playing for Gremio say Arthur potential is just below Ronaldinho (who started as a player here).

When you see Arthur playing he dominates the game like Xavi used to do, finding spaces for teammates and for himself, building every play. Of course, it's in Brazil, not Europe. But he reached the top in Brazil, showing how amazing he is week-to-week against brazilian and south america teams.

In 2016 Gremio were playing the most beautiful soccer in Brazil (according to São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro media) and we had 2 great midfielders: Wallace (he was really good, playing box-to-box, today he plays for Hamburgo) and Maicon (our captain, everybody respects him, plays in the same position that Arthur). Our coach couldn't just bench these guys in order to start with Arthur (he was inexperienced).
But in 2017, Wallace was sold, Maicon got injured, and Arthur took the spot and developed really quick as we all know.

I don't know about La Masia players because I can't see them on TV, but from what I can see from the first team, today, Arthur is better than other options like Arda, Gomes, D. Suarez, Rafinha, Rakitic. He can receive the ball from the defenders, keep it under pressure and play around so the ball can go forward and Messi doesn't have to drop deep to do that. But I don't see him leaving Gremio at the moment, he's really important here, Gremio isn't letting him go for less than 50m and Barça don't want to pay 50m.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I get the hesitation at 50m but srsly, no one should be all that uneasy or surprised that he's a minimum of at least 30m.

I kind agree with the points you are making, except that last sentence
I mean look at players sold from Brazil:
https://www.transfermarkt.co./campeonato-brasileiro-serie-a/transferrekorde/wettbewerb/BRA1
You have only 6 players that has surpasses the 25M price, that list include 5 attackers in Neymar,Vinícius,Lucas ,Jesus & Barbosa.
And Oscar who was AM/winger when he moved to Chelsea IIRC and while he wasn't bust he wasn't exactly a success either. Paulinho is the only other midfielder in the top 10 list and he was huge bust for Tottenham and needed years of developing to make it again in Europe
The flashy attacking players are the ones who cost more from Brazil, Arthur isn't that and it should affect his price
Being unique because of the fact few Brazilians -if any- succeeded having that profile making it more risky transfer and 30M should be maximum for him not the minimum.

 

[Jair Ventura]

If Sergej Milinkovic-Savic is being evaluated at 100m euros, why is 30m euros for Arthur obscene? If his talent translates to European football than his fee will be a bargain, same as Jesus.

He is a terrific player:

 

[khaled_a_d]

If Sergej Milinkovic-Savic is being evaluated at 100m euros, why is 30m euros for Arthur obscene? If his talent translates to European football than his fee will be a bargain, same as Jesus.

He is a terrific player:

If a team paid 100M for Savic then they are doing mistake, even in this crazy market he shouldn't be worth more than 60M and any team paying more is taking huge risk
Every player succeeding in G.Jesus way wll be considered good deal obviously, but you can be the next Barbosa too.
And you answered it yourself, "If his talent translates into European level" is the reason why he should be cheaper, there is a lack of success stories of player of his profile from SA which make it bigger gamble hence should be cheaper

 

[Jair Ventura]

If a team paid 100M for Savic then they are doing mistake, even in this crazy market he shouldn't be worth more than 60M and any team paying more is taking huge risk
Every player succeeding in G.Jesus way wll be considered good deal obviously, but you can be the next Barbosa too.
And you answered it yourself, "If his talent translates into European level" is the reason why he should be cheaper, there is a lack of success stories of player of his profile from SA which make it bigger gamble hence should be cheaper

No one thought Barbosa was going to be a success. He was always average, while Arthur has been a class above in every competition. That is a lazy comparison.

 

[DonAndres]

I kind agree with the points you are making, except that last sentence
I mean look at players sold from Brazil:
https://www.transfermarkt.co./campeonato-brasileiro-serie-a/transferrekorde/wettbewerb/BRA1
You have only 6 players that has surpasses the 25M price, that list include 5 attackers in Neymar,Vinícius,Lucas ,Jesus & Barbosa.
And Oscar who was AM/winger when he moved to Chelsea IIRC and while he wasn't bust he wasn't exactly a success either. Paulinho is the only other midfielder in the top 10 list and he was huge bust for Tottenham and needed years of developing to make it again in Europe
The flashy attacking players are the ones who cost more from Brazil, Arthur isn't that and it should affect his price
Being unique because of the fact few Brazilians -if any- succeeded having that profile making it more risky transfer and 30M should be maximum for him not the minimum.

This is all true but we can't forget the extraordinary leap in inflation the market has taken barely 4 months ago. Neymar's transfer changed the whole game and suddenly fees >100m are spoken about rather casually. Even if Arthur doesn't warrant being one of the most expensive Brazilians ever, we do have to greatly adjust for inflation when comparing his price to past transfers. It's the same as Mendy/Walker not being worth 50m pounds or whatever they costed, it's just the market and price setting precedent that makes them "worth" that much.

I'd say at a price of 50m, Arthur would interfere with our main priorities too much (Coutinho+Griezmann) as the board likely wouldn't spend all that much to bring all 3 in those conditions (roughly 320-330m between winter/summer). At like 30m I'd buy him regardless of our other transfer plans as adding a mere 30 on top for a potentially huge midfield boost is no dumb gamble.

We also have to consider potential failures. If Coutinho is way too expensive and we end up not buying him, is Griezmann+Arthur (combined cost less than Coutinho) a worthy risk even if he's 50m? I think it could be. Hell I think we'd be forced to buy him in that scenario as we need a midfield upgrade no matter what and there are no other options besides Coutinho.

There's a lot to think about with this, but I think many here have been pre-emptively dismissive of Arthur because of his quoted fee and due to the buzz around Coutinho. To me he's still a very interesting option that I'd rather take than potentially miss out on; given all his qualities and his accomplishments I don't think the risk is really that big of an issue. Compared to our other midfield buys in recent years, I'd much rather gamble on Arthur with the information we know about him now than I would've for Gomes, Arda, or Paulinho at the time leading up to their transfers. Gomes, even with his Liga experience, I never believed he had the potential to be anything promising or useful because he was totally unimpressive at Valencia IMO. Arda too was experienced but with his age and fee I didn't think he'd have added any worthwhile improvement. Paulinho was a totally unfavorable gamble and we're very lucky it's worked out better than the other 2 in hindsight.

 

[khaled_a_d]

This is all true but we can't forget the extraordinary leap in inflation the market has taken barely 4 months ago. Neymar's transfer changed the whole game and suddenly fees >100m are spoken about rather casually. Even if Arthur doesn't warrant being one of the most expensive Brazilians ever, we do have to greatly adjust for inflation when comparing his price to past transfers. It's the same as Mendy/Walker not being worth 50m pounds or whatever they costed, it's just the market and price setting precedent that makes them "worth" that much.

I'd say at a price of 50m, Arthur would interfere with our main priorities too much (Coutinho+Griezmann) as the board likely wouldn't spend all that much to bring all 3 in those conditions (roughly 320-330m between winter/summer). At like 30m I'd buy him regardless of our other transfer plans as adding a mere 30 on top for a potentially huge midfield boost is no dumb gamble.

We also have to consider potential failures. If Coutinho is way too expensive and we end up not buying him, is Griezmann+Arthur (combined cost less than Coutinho) a worthy risk even if he's 50m? I think it could be. Hell I think we'd be forced to buy him in that scenario as we need a midfield upgrade no matter what and there are no other options besides Coutinho.

There's a lot to think about with this, but I think many here have been pre-emptively dismissive of Arthur because of his quoted fee and due to the buzz around Coutinho. To me he's still a very interesting option that I'd rather take than potentially miss out on; given all his qualities and his accomplishments I don't think the risk is really that big of an issue. Compared to our other midfield buys in recent years, I'd much rather gamble on Arthur with the information we know about him now than I would've for Gomes, Arda, or Paulinho at the time leading up to their transfers. Gomes, even with his Liga experience, I never believed he had the potential to be anything promising or useful because he was totally unimpressive at Valencia IMO. Arda too was experienced but with his age and fee I didn't think he'd have added any worthwhile improvement. Paulinho was a totally unfavorable gamble and we're very lucky it's worked out better than the other 2 in hindsight.

As I just said on Coutinho thread I think we have to assess all of our options for sure, and Arthur is one of them
That said, it isn't just Arthur and Coutinho, there are plenty of other options in the market, There is Fekir, Houssem , Groetzke, Lemar,Torreira or Rabiot if he didn't renew etc.
If we don't go for Coutinho it doesn't mean we have to go for Arthur, we need to be careful and see what the options we have.
With Arthur we really didn't watch him that much, that makes us -fans- extra cautious obviously specially considering we have limited non-eu spots. Obviously if the board truly believe in Arthur and think he is the next big thing they might splash money at the end in the way they did with Paulinho, but-as Paulinho- I would want that as last resort

 

[DonAndres]

As I just said on Coutinho thread I think we have to assess all of our options for sure, and Arthur is one of them
That said, it isn't just Arthur and Coutinho, there are plenty of other options in the market, There is Fekir, Houssem , Groetzke, Lemar,Torreira or Rabiot if he didn't renew etc.
If we don't go for Coutinho it doesn't mean we have to go for Arthur, we need to be careful and see what the options we have.
With Arthur we really didn't watch him that much, that makes us -fans- extra cautious obviously specially considering we have limited non-eu spots. Obviously if the board truly believe in Arthur and think he is the next big thing they might splash money at the end in the way they did with Paulinho, but-as Paulinho- I would want that as last resort

Goretzka is all but agreed with Bayern no? That's why I excluded him. As for the others I have pretty much no memory of them being linked with Barca save for Lemar in the summer.

If we're talking about transfer options in a vacuum, then absolutely we do have all of football to scope through and find quality players. However I was basing this on the options that we've been strongly linked with recently as it's obviously the board's decision in the end and we can only assess things based on how it looks they're leaning. A lot of people here are nuts over Torreira for example but I'm willing to bet Segura/Robert have never even heard his name.

The midfielders we have been linked with recently AFAIK are Coutinho, Arthur, and Goretzka. Of the 3 Goretzka seems to have been taken off the table while the other 2 remain and we have to decide how we're gonna budget things to upgrade the midfield AND the attack cause I'm not confident in Suarez retaining his consistency over the next couple of years.

 

[Barcaman]

I'm from Brazil and I am a Gremio supporter. I've seen him playing about 45 games, 25 live at Arena, and he is much better than highlights can suggest, you can't see the best of him on TV or Youtube. He is the best young player in Brazil at the moment and here people who watched Ronaldinho playing for Gremio say Arthur potential is just below Ronaldinho (who started as a player here).

When you see Arthur playing he dominates the game like Xavi used to do, finding spaces for teammates and for himself, building every play. Of course, it's in Brazil, not Europe. But he reached the top in Brazil, showing how amazing he is week-to-week against brazilian and south america teams.

In 2016 Gremio were playing the most beautiful soccer in Brazil (according to São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro media) and we had 2 great midfielders: Wallace (he was really good, playing box-to-box, today he plays for Hamburgo) and Maicon (our captain, everybody respects him, plays in the same position that Arthur). Our coach couldn't just bench these guys in order to start with Arthur (he was inexperienced).
But in 2017, Wallace was sold, Maicon got injured, and Arthur took the spot and developed really quick as we all know.

I don't know about La Masia players because I can't see them on TV, but from what I can see from the first team, today, Arthur is better than other options like Arda, Gomes, D. Suarez, Rafinha, Rakitic. He can receive the ball from the defenders, keep it under pressure and play around so the ball can go forward and Messi doesn't have to drop deep to do that. But I don't see him leaving Gremio at the moment, he's really important here, Gremio isn't letting him go for less than 50m and Barça don't want to pay 50m.

Thanx for your input and welcome to the forum!

 

[Xavinho]

I'm from Brazil and I am a Gremio supporter. I've seen him playing about 45 games, 25 live at Arena, and he is much better than highlights can suggest, you can't see the best of him on TV or Youtube. He is the best young player in Brazil at the moment and here people who watched Ronaldinho playing for Gremio say Arthur potential is just below Ronaldinho (who started as a player here).

When you see Arthur playing he dominates the game like Xavi used to do, finding spaces for teammates and for himself, building every play. Of course, it's in Brazil, not Europe. But he reached the top in Brazil, showing how amazing he is week-to-week against brazilian and south america teams.

In 2016 Gremio were playing the most beautiful soccer in Brazil (according to São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro media) and we had 2 great midfielders: Wallace (he was really good, playing box-to-box, today he plays for Hamburgo) and Maicon (our captain, everybody respects him, plays in the same position that Arthur). Our coach couldn't just bench these guys in order to start with Arthur (he was inexperienced).
But in 2017, Wallace was sold, Maicon got injured, and Arthur took the spot and developed really quick as we all know.

I don't know about La Masia players because I can't see them on TV, but from what I can see from the first team, today, Arthur is better than other options like Arda, Gomes, D. Suarez, Rafinha, Rakitic. He can receive the ball from the defenders, keep it under pressure and play around so the ball can go forward and Messi doesn't have to drop deep to do that. But I don't see him leaving Gremio at the moment, he's really important here, Gremio isn't letting him go for less than 50m and Barça don't want to pay 50m.

Interesting assessment. Thanks for sharing. I really like what I’ve seen of Arthur so far and hope he’ll join Barca in the near future.