6 - Gavi

[ajnotkeith]

Are we comparing Ferran and Dani Olmo to Iniesta and David Silva? You are just counting them as midfielders, but they were far more creative and penetrative than the current idiots in attack. The quality just isn't there. Also, didn't they have Fernando Torres as option?

I repeat, put any midfield combo behind Ferran/Olmo/Morata and see what you get.

Croatia made it to the semis with a similar setup that you describe, except way worse attackers than Spain. They also made it to the finals last time.

End of the day that midfield 3 is also flat and uncreative and don't do much other than circulate the ball sideways. It's nice that they can hold the ball but when they don't have the initiative or talent to create it isn't good enough.

 

[vegitot]

Are we comparing Ferran and Dani Olmo to Iniesta and David Silva? You are just counting them as midfielders, but they were far more creative and penetrative than the current idiots in attack. The quality just isn't there. Also, didn't they have Fernando Torres as option?

I repeat, put any midfield combo behind Ferran/Olmo/Morata and see what you get.

Seem you didn't read my post above fully

Problem is none of Spain midfielder can carry, dribble, can take opponent's defense apart. No risk taker from midfield, no game changer.

If Pedri can be bold like Iniesta it would be a different story but i doubt he can change his personality on the pitch

 

[vegitot]

Croatia made it to the semis with a similar setup that you describe, except way worse attackers than Spain. They also made it to the finals last time.

End of the day that midfield 3 is also flat and uncreative and don't do much other than circulate the ball sideways. It's nice that they can hold the ball but when they don't have the initiative or talent to create it isn't good enough.

Croatia don't create much. Vs Japan they barely create and just have one deflect shot vs Brazil.

 

[malvolio]

Croatia made it to the semis with a similar setup that you describe, except way worse attackers than Spain. They also made it to the finals last time.

End of the day that midfield 3 is also flat and uncreative and don't do much other than circulate the ball sideways. It's nice that they can hold the ball but when they don't have the initiative or talent to create it isn't good enough.

Greece won a Euro by parking the bus, your point is? Croatia grinding out qualifications by not actually winning matches is no example. We are talking about teams that actually compete for trophies.

That midfield 3 is not the most creative, yes. But surely not the worse in this tournament.

 

[mc_lovin]

If Pedri can be bold like Iniesta it would be a different story but i doubt he can change his personality on the pitch

I am 99.9% sure Pedri will dwarf Iniesta's direct goal contributions over his career.

For me the "issue" with Pedri is that he's just not seasoned enough (yet?). He drifts in and out of games, looks physically done after 60/70 minutes (despite his ridiculous stamina)... I guess his movement is just not efficient enough right now. He will get there though... you can easily remind yourself on youtube why Pedri is so special. His passing technique looks so natural (in the same vain as Ozil, Fabregas, Xavi and de Bruyne).

 

[Horatio]

I am 99.9% sure Pedri will dwarf Iniesta's direct goal contributions over his career.

For me the "issue" with Pedri is that he's just not seasoned enough (yet?). He drifts in and out of games, looks physically done after 60/70 minutes (despite his ridiculous stamina)... I guess his movement is just not efficient enough right now. He will get there though... you can easily remind yourself on youtube why Pedri is so special. His passing technique looks so natural (in the same vain as Ozil, Fabregas, Xavi and de Bruyne).

Also time for 3 mf's that have mobility rather than 2 and 1 freeloading.

 

[jamrock]

Croatia made it to the semis with a similar setup that you describe, except way worse attackers than Spain. They also made it to the finals last time.

End of the day that midfield 3 is also flat and uncreative and don't do much other than circulate the ball sideways. It's nice that they can hold the ball but when they don't have the initiative or talent to create it isn't good enough.

Bad example, has Croatia won 1 game from open play?.

 

[Porque]

Croatia live and die the same way as the LE era - penalties.

 

[BBZ8800]

Croatia don't create much. Vs Japan they barely create and just have one deflect shot vs Brazil.

Serbia and Switzerland also hadn't create vs Brazil. Only Korea after 0:4.
So, it is hard to tell whether a team is good or bad with 1-2 shots vs Brazil.

Spain didn't create much vs Germany, Japan or Morocco either.

Bad example, has Croatia won 1 game from open play?.

Morocco 0:0, semifinalist 2022'
Canada 4:1
Belgium 0:0, semifinalist 2018'
Japan 1:1, pens
Brazil 1:1, pens, the 1st favorite of a Wc

You could say: Croatia won only 1 match.
But you could also say: Croatia hasn't LOST a single match.
You can't say that for Spain. Spain lost to Japan 1:2, and Morocco 0:0 (pens).

Further, your post in a nutshell describes what is wrong with Barca/Brazil DNA.
They are always looking for the win at the expense of defense and caution.

When it works perfectly, you get the best displays in a history of football.
But when it doesn't work, which is like in 90% of tournaments = you get tactically naive squads who often underachieve based on their talent and who could have achieved way more if they played "smarter".

Barca's/Brazil's way is the way to go in league tournaments or against smaller teams (80% of league opponents).
On the other hand, Barca's way (too attacking) is extremely naive in KO matches, unless if you have a team which is 200% better than everyone and you score a 1st goal.

Maybe it is not a coincidence that Barca and Pep's City are the kings of league championships and they are masters of 5:0 trashing against smaller teams.
Yet, when it comes to KO matches, more cautious football played by Italians in 90s, Real in the last 10 years, Bayern, Chelsea and similar (or France at NT WCs) = is the way to go.

Regarding Barca/Spain in KO matches lately:
-- don't know how to defend
-- only recycling possession, Pep's football gone into the wrong extreme (especially with Lucho, not with Xavi's Barca)

Regarding Pedri, I have wrote earlier that he was raised as a kid watching Xavi's videos.
But some points of Xavi's football went into the extremes and some are neglected.
And imo, Spanish young midfielders in the next 10-20 years will suffer from Xavitis, being raised watching his playing, but taking only some of Xavi's traits and neglecting others which made him good.
Something similar to a possession football played by Barca/Spain lately. It has roots in Pep's Barca, but it went into shitty extremes.
They took only some parts of it and neglected others.

 

[ajnotkeith]

Bad example, has Croatia won 1 game from open play?.

Just an example of how a team with far less resources has produced results, whilst people cry poverty about LE's Spain team (which the weakness of is partially of his own making, having left so many good players at home).

 

[jamrock]

Just an example of how a team with far less resources has produced results, whilst people cry poverty about LE's Spain team (which the weakness of is partially of his own making, having left so many good players at home).

The Leaving players at home part that could add something different I agree with.

 

[khaled_a_d]

euro 2012, no forward no problem with prime Iniesta, Xavi, Busi. Problem is none of Spain midfielder can carry, dribble, can take opponent's defense apart. No risk taker from midfield, no game changer.

If Pedri can be bold like Iniesta it would be a different story but i doubt he can change his personality on the pitch

And Spain was able to win penalties, unlike current team.
Also false 9 Cesc is still better goal scorer than any currebt attavker Spain had.
And tbh, you can't ask 3 midfielders to do the job of 6, current Spain play with 3 midfielders and 3 attackers, who were just terrible.
In Euro 2021, Olmo and Torres looked very promising, and people were hoping they will develop further and waiting for Fati return and develop.
Fati remained injured and both Torres and Olmo took a step back, basically ending that team chances of deep run without penalties luck.

 

[feggydinho]

Croatia made it to the semis with a similar setup that you describe, except way worse attackers than Spain. They also made it to the finals last time.

End of the day that midfield 3 is also flat and uncreative and don't do much other than circulate the ball sideways. It's nice that they can hold the ball but when they don't have the initiative or talent to create it isn't good enough.

People really underestimate Morocco, it's really hard to penetrate or create clear chances against them. They've played Croatia, Canada, Belgium, Spain, Portugal and only conceded an own goal so they're tough.

Plus Amrabat and Azzedine Ounahi are really amazing for them in midfield. Even Luis Enrique highlighted Ounahi's quality, though they lack finishing else they would've scored more goals against Portugal.

Finally, I think it'll be harder for them against France since both of their starting defenders are now injured, but it's tough to play against them currently.

 

[kollegah]

thus guy would be a bench warmer in Bayern, City or Madrid.
In Barca he is seen as a reincarnation of Xavi -> this just shows that Barca became of club of losers (lead by Jordi Alba)

 

[jamrock]

At Bayern, city and Madrid he would have world class players to compete against, at Barcelona he has Frankie De jong, no surprise he's a regular starter.

Can you imagine him starting over kimmich, Leon, Gundogan, B. Silva, Kroos, Modric, Valverde.

Can fault the club for not signing the right players over the years, but we have what we have no, which isn't much, so he's gonna be a regular starter.