Total-Football
Senior Member
Gavi is a completely useless player, Bernal is basically in rehab, while cassado couldn't even reproduce his form from last season. Stop bugging
21 - Frenkie de Jong
- Thread starter Pedro
- Start date
ZenI
Professor Balthazar
I would too, but Flick likes his 4-2-3-1 and he won't change it for a more balanced midfield. I'd gladly take a player like Ruiz or Zubi over both Olmo and Fermin when we get a mobile #9 who doesn't need babysitting. What's the point if having Lewa way up the pitch when we get pressed to bits by any decent team and can't string together a couple of passes? At least if we had Torres on CF he could press and with Rashy on LW we would have another out on the wing - at least Rashy can keep the ball for more than 2 seconds.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Regarding 433 with midfield positioned more closer vs 4231, there is a huge shift towards 4231 in European football in the last 2-3 years.
4231 with two pivots is offering way more protection against counters and is more suitable for Flick's football with a high defensive line.
Also, AM is offering an extra presence around the box and is helping against problems of a classic 433 (Barca 2016-2022) where we had too much possession, too many sterile passes and not enough threat around the box.
For a majority of teams, 4231 is currently a better option both in defense and offense.
A good old 433 with tighter midfield can be used only by clubs like Psg who have a top class midfield, awesome fullbacks and attackers who can press.
In our team, we have Lewa who doesn't press so we need two pivots to protect the defense (and flanks) when our pressing gets beaten.
Further, if we want a tighter, more balanced midfield, then we'll lack the 4th guy in the box since Pedri, Frenkie, Casado aren't dangerous around the box.
Further, if we'll play with a tighter midfield, we'll need more attacking fullbacks to provide the width and attacking power.
The days of Barca's 433 formation are behind us, in tactical terms.
As said above, a majority of top teams have moved towards 4231.
Or towards 343 in possession with a fullback who turns into a pivot and then the team creates "a box midfield" consisted of 2 pivots and 2 AMs.
But, BOTH 4231 and "box midfield" formations have 2 pivots because that's the new norm in football, especially if you play an attacking football paired with high pressing.
If you play with only 1 pivot today paired with a high pressing, you'll end as Barca vs Liverpool, vs Bayern and similar.
Zero protection once when you lose the ball or when the opponent beats your press and they are free to do whatever they want in counters.
4231 with two pivots is offering way more protection against counters and is more suitable for Flick's football with a high defensive line.
Also, AM is offering an extra presence around the box and is helping against problems of a classic 433 (Barca 2016-2022) where we had too much possession, too many sterile passes and not enough threat around the box.
For a majority of teams, 4231 is currently a better option both in defense and offense.
A good old 433 with tighter midfield can be used only by clubs like Psg who have a top class midfield, awesome fullbacks and attackers who can press.
In our team, we have Lewa who doesn't press so we need two pivots to protect the defense (and flanks) when our pressing gets beaten.
Further, if we want a tighter, more balanced midfield, then we'll lack the 4th guy in the box since Pedri, Frenkie, Casado aren't dangerous around the box.
Further, if we'll play with a tighter midfield, we'll need more attacking fullbacks to provide the width and attacking power.
The days of Barca's 433 formation are behind us, in tactical terms.
As said above, a majority of top teams have moved towards 4231.
Or towards 343 in possession with a fullback who turns into a pivot and then the team creates "a box midfield" consisted of 2 pivots and 2 AMs.
But, BOTH 4231 and "box midfield" formations have 2 pivots because that's the new norm in football, especially if you play an attacking football paired with high pressing.
If you play with only 1 pivot today paired with a high pressing, you'll end as Barca vs Liverpool, vs Bayern and similar.
Zero protection once when you lose the ball or when the opponent beats your press and they are free to do whatever they want in counters.
te amo barca
Blaugrana al vent
Yes he's a controller, but he played a good portion of these at LCM/RCM in a 4-3-3
ZenI
Professor Balthazar
Let's not fool ourselves... I like Frenkie, but that is piss poor.
jamrock
Senior Member
He's like busquets, if busquets wasn't well busquets.
That's a very vanilla player.
Seriously imagine busi, if he wasn't absolutely class, how much of an frustrating player he would be.
Its would be like you're good, but you should be so much better.= De jong.
That's a very vanilla player.
Seriously imagine busi, if he wasn't absolutely class, how much of an frustrating player he would be.
Its would be like you're good, but you should be so much better.= De jong.
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ajnotkeith
Senior Member
I think the reason Frenkie has few goals and assists is he doesn't always play with one touch, he dribbles and carries the ball a lot, and he's good at that, but closer to the area in general to score you need to play with one or two touches.
Sometimes he can lack directness or aggression, he could be more forcing.
Sometimes he can lack directness or aggression, he could be more forcing.
Miles away of being paid as Frenkie too so pipe down.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Humble guy
His debut was also vs Chelsea, baby Frenkie in action:
ToranagaSama
Well-known member
What does he control though? Topping the 0 vertical passes statistic?
He doesn't need to assist but this is what we are lacking from him:
If he can't assist, can't break lines with vertical passes, only plays it safe sideways, isn't a defensive powerhouse and excells just at keeping the ball, he is a bit of a nothing player.
Nello
Member
Weird take, very different players
JamDav1982
Senior Member
He isnt anything like Busquets no one claims he is.
Could show a thousand clips of things Xavi could do Pedri doesnt also.
It means nothing unless anyone saying they are similar.
Clips can show anything want to really in isolation.
Real fans put up fail compilations of games Pedri was top class in for example and did same in Rodris balon dor year and his Euros campaign.
There were two recent games where some NL pundits claimed he didnt impose himself enough for example... in both cases players and managments commented on FDJ being the one they struggled to deal with in the game.
Posting clips above of Celta game... when he played very well.. and again Celta coach commented on.
Seen clips from Inter last season.. after it Inzaghi takes time out to praise him along with Yamal as being the best two.
Frenkie didnt play well v Chelsea it happens.... cant happen too often and on him and the team to sort it.
Could claim 'Pedri loses ball badly too often to be a top midielder' and show countless clips teams have broke on Barca this season through for example.. but doesnt tell whole story.
Could show a thousand clips of things Xavi could do Pedri doesnt also.
It means nothing unless anyone saying they are similar.
Clips can show anything want to really in isolation.
Real fans put up fail compilations of games Pedri was top class in for example and did same in Rodris balon dor year and his Euros campaign.
There were two recent games where some NL pundits claimed he didnt impose himself enough for example... in both cases players and managments commented on FDJ being the one they struggled to deal with in the game.
Posting clips above of Celta game... when he played very well.. and again Celta coach commented on.
Seen clips from Inter last season.. after it Inzaghi takes time out to praise him along with Yamal as being the best two.
Frenkie didnt play well v Chelsea it happens.... cant happen too often and on him and the team to sort it.
Could claim 'Pedri loses ball badly too often to be a top midielder' and show countless clips teams have broke on Barca this season through for example.. but doesnt tell whole story.
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jamrock
Senior Member
Yea but wasn't meant to be a 1v1 comparison.
Its just to highlight that busquets would frustrate as much as de jong does, if busquets wasn't great.
Then all you'll be left with. Is a player that is press resident, except when he's being properly pressed by high-class players, plays the simple pass very well & nits things together well enough more often times than not.
But when that extra step is needed........
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