20 - Sergi Roberto

BBZ8800

Senior Member
We concieded twice against bloddy Huesca because of mainly him and Pique. One of them needs to be benched. If we want to play Pique, he needs to have a defensive minded full-back next to him. If we play Roberto, he needs a CB, who is better 1 on 1 next to him.

As things stand now, I would go for Roberto with Lenglet-Umtiti CB pairing.

We just won La Liga win Roberto-Pique pairing with 1 defeat.
And we have 3 wins in the first 3 rounds this season.

So, things aren't THAT bad.

We will lose from time to time, surely.

2 clean sheets out of 3.
Not that bad.

You guys should accept that we probably won't win a CL.
And EV just won a double with only 1 La liga defeat with these 11 players.

If those guys were that good (results wise) in La liga a few Months ago, there is no much need for experiments.
Ev will play exactly the same and probably win La liga again.

Forum has it's own favorites who are usually young, La Masia players or new signings.
Ev doesn't have similar favorites.
His favorites are 11 players who lost only 1 match over 38 rounds.

Why fix it if it ain't broken?
I know, people here think that "it" is broken.
It is a matter of perspective.

From an objective point of view, playing exactly the same as last year makes sense, because it will probably (on paper) bring similar results.
And it is, for now.
 

FCBfan22

Senior Member
From an objective point of view, playing exactly the same as last year makes sense, because it will probably (on paper) bring similar results.
And it is, for now.

We don't play exactly the same as last year. Messi is now our RW again and this is even bigger liability for our right side defensively.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
We don't play exactly the same as last year. Messi is now our RW again and this is even bigger liability for our right side defensively.

You know that argument from Dembele's thread:
= when he loses 63 balls in 3 matches, it doesn't matter since he is creating a lot

Well, more or less it is similar:
Roberto is weaker in defense, but he contributes more in attack and build up, and that means more over 38 rounds than Semedo's overall contribution.
Especially since we have the ball like 70% or 75% of time.

Further, you say that Messi plays on the right and we are even weaker in defense.
On the other hand, we have more balance in attack now and we will score even more than last season.
So, Messi at a RW and Roberto at a RB > Semedo Rb and Messi in the middle over 38 rounds.

So, in the end, attack wins over some defensive weaknesses (in La Liga).
This team, with 11 fixed starters and Roberto and Messi RW is good enough to be a champion again.

About a CL, that is another story...

But since our (board's) priorities are a domestic double, we will probably achieve it with this lineup.
 

Danic

New member
I wonder what this is what roberto contributes in the offense. I cant remember the last game he did it.
In fact today we saw the problem which semedo is facing as well. No real RW to play with. Backpasses over and over again.
 

ASordidGod

New member
You know that argument from Dembele's thread:
= when he loses 63 balls in 3 matches, it doesn't matter since he is creating a lot

Well, more or less it is similar:
Roberto is weaker in defense, but he contributes more in attack and build up, and that means more over 38 rounds than Semedo's overall contribution.
Especially since we have the ball like 70% or 75% of time.

Further, you say that Messi plays on the right and we are even weaker in defense.
On the other hand, we have more balance in attack now and we will score even more than last season.
So, Messi at a RW and Roberto at a RB > Semedo Rb and Messi in the middle over 38 rounds.

So, in the end, attack wins over some defensive weaknesses (in La Liga).
This team, with 11 fixed starters and Roberto and Messi RW is good enough to be a champion again.

About a CL, that is another story...

But since our (board's) priorities are a domestic double, we will probably achieve it with this lineup.

Well he offered nothing going forward really, but cost us defensively twice. (or at least played a part.) He's simply not good enough attacking wise to compensate for his defensive weaknesses. He's not like a Marcelo, for example. It's funny actually, because the one time I want Valverde to play it conservative and choose the better defender, he doesn't.
 

jairzinho

Senior Member
A performance like that would get Semedo withdrawn at halftime. Just saying. Bob being a La masia boy and a teachers pet type can do no wrong.
 

biraboyz

Banned
LMAO at what people saying here about Roberto just to push their Semedo agenda. Blamed for those Goals as if he is the only defensive line
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Well he offered nothing going forward really, but cost us defensively twice. (or at least played a part.) He's simply not good enough attacking wise to compensate for his defensive weaknesses. He's not like a Marcelo, for example. It's funny actually, because the one time I want Valverde to play it conservative and choose the better defender, he doesn't.

Ok, it is a matter about personal views on football, skills, movement, chemistry.

For me, Semedo always looks as if we play: 10 Barca players + Semedo.
He plays as if he doesn't belong to a team.
Zero chemistry, zero understanding, zero natural on and off the ball movement which fits to our team.
On the other hand, Roberto has ALL of that.

Now, if people will look only at KEY actions like: how many dribbles he made? How many crosses he made? How many runs did he make etc?
Then you won't see THAT much.
But to some extent, you know how some people say about Xavi (among midfielders) for example: he is always there, moving, making himself available, and even if he doesn't make too much in terms of assists, he made 100s of good things in build up, movement and attacking.
I am not saying that Roberto is Xavi, but he GETS IT.
He understands what our team is doing, what he is supposed to do, what he is supposed to do, where to move, when to move.
He is bad in defense sometimes, though.
On the other hand, Semedo is totally lost. A guy plays as if he doesn't understand anything what is happening around him.
And his attacking runs are more like: fuck it, I have no idea whether I should run or not in this moment. I will just run down the wing and hope that someone will pass the ball to me.

This analogy will be slightly exaggerated, but if you ever played some weird logical or Japanese videogames or games on Mobile phones?
Do you know that feeling when you don't read a guide, you just click: yes, yes, start, yes, yes, start.
And the game starts, and you have NO CLUE what is this game about. What are you supposed to do. You don't even know controls.
And then you randomly click buttons one by one and realize: oh, this button makes me run. Oh, with this button I am moving my player in this direction etc.
And then, if you would have a friend looking how you play (and if he knows how to play that game), he would probably look at you and laugh as fuck, like: loll what are you doing? Do you know what are you supposed to do at all, lol? This is so funny!

Well, at least for me, watching Semedo in attack (not in defense) feels equally as weird as playing a weird Japanese video game without reading instructions and a guide first.
Semedo for me is totally lost when he comes into an opponent's half.
Not only the end product, but everything: decisions, runs, on the ball movement, off the ball movement, passes, everything.

So, in short:
Roberto is not too skillful guy (as a RB), but he understands what this "video" game is about. What is he supposed to do, how to kill the enemies, run, jump, collect coins and similar.
Semedo, in terms of a video game, is a guy who on paper may be more skillful than Roberto, but he didn't bother to read instructions and he is just running aimlessly and clicking buttons for no apparent reason and without too much logic.

To some extent, this is why don't like Dembele either.
For example, yesterday, he had a few awesome solo actions, but other than that, with him I also have a feeling as if we have 10 Barca players and Dembele on a field.
And then when people say: Dembele and Semedo have an awesome connection on a field. Well, to some extent, that is because neither of them understand our movement, so they are playing in their own way and passing to eachother on the right flank :lol:

Anyway, Dembele currently doesn't understand our movement, but at least, he can offer magic in individual actions from time to time.
Semedo, on the other hand, doesn't get our movement and actions at all, and unlike Dembele, he can't offer absolutely nothing in solo actions with his end product.

Imo, no point in explaining this further.
If someone doesn't see how lost Semedo looks on a field, and how his chemistry, understanding with teammates and movement looks like, then there is really no point talking too much about Roberto vs Semedo in attack.

Roberto is meh to ok in attack.
Semedo is absolutely horrible and doing almost everything wrong in attack.
 

ASordidGod

New member
Ok, it is a matter about personal views on football, skills, movement, chemistry.

For me, Semedo always looks as if we play: 10 Barca players + Semedo.
He plays as if he doesn't belong to a team.
Zero chemistry, zero understanding, zero natural on and off the ball movement which fits to our team.
On the other hand, Roberto has ALL of that.

Now, if people will look only at KEY actions like: how many dribbles he made? How many crosses he made? How many runs did he make etc?
Then you won't see THAT much.
But to some extent, you know how some people say about Xavi (among midfielders) for example: he is always there, moving, making himself available, and even if he doesn't make too much in terms of assists, he made 100s of good things in build up, movement and attacking.
I am not saying that Roberto is Xavi, but he GETS IT.
He understands what our team is doing, what he is supposed to do, what he is supposed to do, where to move, when to move.
He is bad in defense sometimes, though.
On the other hand, Semedo is totally lost. A guy plays as if he doesn't understand anything what is happening around him.
And his attacking runs are more like: fuck it, I have no idea whether I should run or not in this moment. I will just run down the wing and hope that someone will pass the ball to me.

This analogy will be slightly exaggerated, but if you ever played some weird logical or Japanese videogames or games on Mobile phones?
Do you know that feeling when you don't read a guide, you just click: yes, yes, start, yes, yes, start.
And the game starts, and you have NO CLUE what is this game about. What are you supposed to do. You don't even know controls.
And then you randomly click buttons one by one and realize: oh, this button makes me run. Oh, with this button I am moving my player in this direction etc.
And then, if you would have a friend looking how you play (and if he knows how to play that game), he would probably look at you and laugh as fuck, like: loll what are you doing? Do you know what are you supposed to do at all, lol? This is so funny!

Well, at least for me, watching Semedo in attack (not in defense) feels equally as weird as playing a weird Japanese video game without reading instructions and a guide first.
Semedo for me is totally lost when he comes into an opponent's half.
Not only the end product, but everything: decisions, runs, on the ball movement, off the ball movement, passes, everything.

So, in short:
Roberto is not too skillful guy (as a RB), but he understands what this "video" game is about. What is he supposed to do, how to kill the enemies, run, jump, collect coins and similar.
Semedo, in terms of a video game, is a guy who on paper may be more skillful than Roberto, but he didn't bother to read instructions and he is just running aimlessly and clicking buttons for no apparent reason and without too much logic.

To some extent, this is why don't like Dembele either.
For example, yesterday, he had a few awesome solo actions, but other than that, with him I also have a feeling as if we have 10 Barca players and Dembele on a field.
And then when people say: Dembele and Semedo have an awesome connection on a field. Well, to some extent, that is because neither of them understand our movement, so they are playing in their own way and passing to eachother on the right flank :lol:

Anyway, Dembele currently doesn't understand our movement, but at least, he can offer magic in individual actions from time to time.
Semedo, on the other hand, doesn't get our movement and actions at all, and unlike Dembele, he can't offer absolutely nothing in solo actions with his end product.

Imo, no point in explaining this further.
If someone doesn't see how lost Semedo looks on a field, and how his chemistry, understanding with teammates and movement looks like, then there is really no point talking too much about Roberto vs Semedo in attack.

Roberto is meh to ok in attack.
Semedo is absolutely horrible and doing almost everything wrong in attack.

I agree Semedo isn't a seamless fit so far, and has looked a little lost at times. But the only way he's going to improve in that regard is to play consistently. Personally I think he's improved a lot for us in an attacking sense already, and if he can sort his final ball, big if admittedly, he'll be a real asset.

Anyway for me the situation is pretty simple: we know what Roberto is by now, which is decent on the ball, quite good going forward, atrocious defensively, especially alongside Pique. In summation: not good enough to be a first choice right back, and never will be. With Semedo however, there's still a chance he COULD be. I'm not saying he's there yet, possibly he won't ever be good enough for us either, but why not give him a chance a find out? A proper chance, that is, not 45 mins and scapegoat him at half time when the whole team plays poorly. Personally I'd play him first team all season, Roberto only as occasional rotation, and if he shows enough, great, if not sell. And then whoever comes in comes in first team. Because like I say, as much as I admire Roberto his persistence, he's not good enough to start. And never will be, not as a reliable option in big games.
 

gatsu

New member
You can't expect a player to assimilate Barça chemistry knowing its complexity if you play him once a month. Roberto is not an RB and will never be. In this situation the most logical thing to do is give maximum chances to your only natural RB which is semedo. If you are not convinced with his quality buy another RB(an opinion not shared by the board). Simple fact.

But we all know that Roberto starting position is not due to competence and skills.
 
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BBZ8800

Senior Member
I agree Semedo isn't a seamless fit so far, and has looked a little lost at times. But the only way he's going to improve in that regard is to play consistently. Personally I think he's improved a lot for us in an attacking sense already, and if he can sort his final ball, big if admittedly, he'll be a real asset.

Anyway for me the situation is pretty simple: we know what Roberto is by now, which is decent on the ball, quite good going forward, atrocious defensively, especially alongside Pique. In summation: not good enough to be a first choice right back, and never will be. With Semedo however, there's still a chance he COULD be. I'm not saying he's there yet, possibly he won't ever be good enough for us either, but why not give him a chance a find out? A proper chance, that is, not 45 mins and scapegoat him at half time when the whole team plays poorly. Personally I'd play him first team all season, Roberto only as occasional rotation, and if he shows enough, great, if not sell. And then whoever comes in comes in first team. Because like I say, as much as I admire Roberto his persistence, he's not good enough to start. And never will be, not as a reliable option in big games.

Well, you are one of "but what if?" guys.
You are willing to test/ruin something which is average for something which may turn as better or as a total disaster.

A safe approach is: play the one who is ok (Roberto), since we won a double even with him.
Semedo: play him from time. If he will be good, play him more. If he won't, don't play him too much.

A more radical approach is: play Semedo all the time, and be willing to risk a season in order to see how will he develop.
It could end well: we will find a new Alves.
It could end horrible: we will win less points since we will struggle in attack.

You can't expect a player to assimilate Barça chemistry knowing its complexity if you play him once a month. Roberto is not an RB and will never be. In this situation the most logical thing to do is give maximum chances to your only natural RB which is semedo. If you are not convinced with his quality buy another RB(an opinion not shared by the board). Simple fact.

But we all know that Roberto starting position is not due to competence and skills.

True.
But again, nothing is black and white.
Each player needs time to learn our system.

But some guys are decent from the day 1, some are totally lost.

Examples:
Arthur understands our movement after 3-4 matches.
Ok, people will say: he played in a similar system in Brasil...

Ok, what about Coutinho then?
He was decent from the first match.
And while not perfect, he was let's say 50% good fit and he is improving over time.

With Semedo, he seems like a 10% good fit currently.

So, you see, some players are average in the beginning, and over time they improve to very good once they learn our system.
Others are very poor and their improvement path is way longer since they need to go from horrible to average and then to good.
While Coutinho/Arthur only need to go from average to very good.

For example, you can see right away how Arthur fits better with a team than Vidal.
And Vidal will need way more time to learn our movement.
Ok, he is a different type of a player blah blah, but a point stands.
With some players, you can see right away that they will probably click and fit, and that they won't need THAT much to adapt.
With other players, you see that they will need light years to understand our movements.

Imo, Semedo is one of the guys.
And for me, Dembele also has hints of that problem.

For example, Dembele is more skillfull, but still looks quite lost on a field too often, even after 14 Months here.
Malcom is less skillfull, but whenever he plays, he seems less lost than Dembele, so, he understands our movement better.

On the other hand, Dembele can create more individual magic out of nowhere, which is unrelated to his understanding of our movements.

So, both Malcom&Dembele and Arthur&Vidal will improve over time when they will learn our system.
But some guys are ok from the day 1 and will probably need less time to learn and adapt, while some seem way more lost from the day 1.

And then you have a question: when a guy is totally lost and since he will need way more time to learn and adapt, HOW much time are you willing to give him (also, a team will suffer in that time)?
Further, if a player is a new Messi, then it is more reasonable to give him more time to test him, since a possible reward is very high (Messi, Dembele).
While, if a player doesn't have such a high ceiling (Semedo) and he is lost as hell, and will need a lot of time, then maths is different, risks are higher, a potential reward is lower, so there is less reasons to risk.

More or less, that is exactly what EV is doing.
Semedo is getting some chances.
He isn't improving.
He is lost on a field.
A potentaial reward is questionable.

And so, this is why Roberto plays and Semedo gets soem matches to show whether there is hope for him.
So, EV hasn't closed a door completely for Semedo.
But EV surely won't go "all in" with Semedo and play only him, since a risk of a potential good outcome is way too high.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
more pique's fault than roberto, both times they scored pique was doing god knows what instead of intercepting or man marking.
i doubt semedo would be able to mark two players at once.

First goal was defenitely not on Roberto and probably not on Pique too, watching the game now I replied that goal zillion of times and Roberto was put in 2 vs 1 situation in aerial challenge thanks to Rakitic not supporting defense (our biggest defensive problem by far), Pique has stayed with his man and Roberto was left with 2 guys to mark, not his fault by any mean.

Second goal was on Raki too, run from outside and Raki cought sleeping while Busquets is walking on the aimlessly too.

Well, if we play Roberto, we play with 10 men in defense and with 11 men in attack.
If we play Semedo, we play with 11 men in defense and 10 men in attack.

There are few rules that I believe in when it comes too football, one of those is that when a defender is put on 2 vs 1 situation whatever the result it isn't his fault.
Our RB is always put in that situation, Roberto being the starting RB is put in that situation more, last night game was an example of it, both goals he tried to save the day for midfield lack of cover but blame is put on him, when this happened when Semedo played we got same situation against Levante.
We aren't playing with 10 man in defense because of Roberto, but because our midfielders won't cover for defense abnd leave them exposed. Raki and Busquets lack of speed and sometimes effort is worse problem than situation with RB
Semedo form doesn't help. Semedo is a bit better on defense than Roberto, but it isn't like he is a beast in aerial challenge or so and it isn't like he can cover for the mistakes of his teammates.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
We aren't playing with 10 man in defense because of Roberto, but because our midfielders won't cover for defense abnd leave them exposed. Raki and Busquets lack of speed and sometimes effort is worse problem than situation with RB
Semedo form doesn't help. Semedo is a bit better on defense than Roberto, but it isn't like he is a beast in aerial challenge or so and it isn't like he can cover for the mistakes of his teammates.

No, I didn't mean: 10 men due to Roberto.
That was more like:
If Roberto plays: we have an average defender and get more in attack
If we play Semedo: we get more in defense and get nothing in attack

My choice is Roberto also.

I know that Semedo isn't that good in defense and in the air either.
He was on a verge of committing 2-3 penalties against Roma with extremely weird and risky body-tackles in a box as a last man of defense on a few occasions.
Plus, his (even though way taller) player scored a winning 3:0 goal after a corner against Roma.

So, I agree that Semedo is a better defender than Roberto.
But he is also quite meh in defense and prone to lots of weird tackles and decisions in defense.
 

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