Hans-Dieter Flick

Hansi Flick - how do we rate him?


  • Total voters
    139

serghei

Senior Member
Indeed, it was Rashford and that's why I'm pissed of he doesn't anticipate and position himself and than press - light fucking jog from him after usually him loosing the ball. Our opponents only train one fucking thing, how to mess up our offside "trap"... sit back, wait until Rashy, Casado, Fermin, Olmo, Kounde or Balde lose the ball - keep on eye on the "last" Barca player while countering = profit.

Sure, but you can't go from Rashford not pressing well up top to conceding 1 vs 1s at the back consistently. What about what happens in between? An initial mistake doesn't have to trigger a cascade of other errors. The position after Rashford doesn't press well is more than manageable, there is no superiority for Brugges. After Rashford doesn't press well and you get breached, you have to adjust to a different defending setup.
 

jairzinho

Senior Member
He has said repeatedly he does not consider changing his approach so we could be in for another wild season of suicide ball with high scoring games. The problem is teams have figured out how to beat the line.
 

serghei

Senior Member
How often people need to repeat themselves, that it's not about the tactic but about the players executing it.

Strangly that's exactly what Bayern did successfully in Paris (until the red card obviously). What happened here, Paris doesn't know how to play against a defensive-line standing in the midfield? They have worse players than Brugge to send their forwards into 1vs1 situations? Why didn't they score againt Bayern's high-line?

It just proves, that this system can always be successful, as long as the requirements for it are met. Opponents adapting, gives away many options for 1vs1, it's all bullshit. It's either the requirements are met or not. Players are capable and believe in the system or not. I translated a good post on the last site on that topic


Btw, I looked at the full sequence, not just the bit you present here to say it's exactly the same as our pressing under Flick.

Here is the full sequence.

1. Marquinhos on the ball, passes it to the keeper. Probably to try to lure PSG into the type of pressing Barca did, make them expand.

psg-bayern0.jpg


2. Keeper has the ball. Note several things.
a) Kane keeps position and he is not interested to press Chevalier. Bayern not interested in pressing here. If he presses Chevalier here he simply passes to one of the open teammates.
b) By not pressing the keeper and the centerbacks here, Kane helps form a 3 vs 2 in the middle of the pitch.

If you follow Barca match vs PSG we had several instances where we mindlessly pressed the keeper and the CBs. Nothing lke that here.

psg-bayern1.jpg


3. This is actually the negative pass by PSG that triggers the aggressive man to man press. It's a pass that puts Marquinhos in a bad position by Vitinha, and from this moment it becomes very difficult for PSG to play through the press. After this moment you see full press from the entire Bayern team.

But the key difference is the aggressive press doesn't start by default, but based on clear triggers. This is a full 20 seconds of possession for PSG and Bayern initially don't press at all, then press lightly only key players from PSG, and only when they can make the biggest damage with lowest risk they go for aggressive pressing.

psg-bayern2.jpg


4. At this point PSG cornered themselves and can only play long ball. Marquinhos plays a poor pass to Hakimi and Bayern's press is deemed a success. Notice the position of Luiz. He's their LW.

psg-bayern3.jpg


So, already several important differences. Keeper is rarely pressed. Pressing doesn't get triggered by default. It's conditional and situational. Pressing doesn't go crazy mode form the start, but after PSG players dwell on the ball and play several back passes. Only then full aggressive man to man pressing is triggered, when the risk is minimal as PSG lost any good option of progression on the ball.
 
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serghei

Senior Member
Comparing that with our amateurish Rambo style pressing where we press the fucking keeper. What are we worried about when the keeper has the ball? Why would you compromise your shape to press the keeper? It's completely retarded. Nothing like Bayern at all. Do you see Kane there running like a mad man to press everything that moves? No, he is tasked with more important duties. He is strategic, tactical, does not waste his energy on mindless running.

No wonder Ferran's legs were gone by min 70. The amount of useless pressing he engaged in was absurd.

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gatsu

Well-known member
We don’t need to look at Bayern to understand how to implement smart pressing. Flick could simply show the players videos of Barça from 2009 or 2015 to demonstrate how efficient off-the-ball pressing is done. That said, it’s also possible that Flick’s instructions are correct, but the players are struggling to execute them properly.
As @serghei demonstrated, the issue is not about fitness but rather the balance between effort and efficiency
 

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
We don’t need to look at Bayern to understand how to implement smart pressing. Flick could simply show the players videos of Barça from 2009 or 2015 to demonstrate how efficient off-the-ball pressing is done. That said, it’s also possible that Flick’s instructions are correct, but the players are struggling to execute them properly.
As @serghei demonstrated, the issue is not about fitness but rather the balance between effort and efficiency

It's issue of fitness too. Fitness to execute the plan.
 

serghei

Senior Member
And Bayern is actually in shape to run. We can press for max 25min and then rest of the game we try to continue it but never works because we are too tired. It's madness.

They have better conditions than us. More athletic players up front (harder workers on both wings and CAM), and their pressing is different. I really don't see Kane being pushed to make 37 high intensity pressing runs all the way from midfield to the keeper constantly like we ask of Ferran. He'd be spent and unable to do anything also, considering his age and his big frame. Nobody is a robot.
 

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
They have better conditions than us. More athletic players up front (harder workers on both wings and CAM), and their pressing is different. I really don't see Kane being pushed to make 37 high intensity pressing runs all the way from midfield to the keeper constantly like we ask of Ferran. He'd be spent and unable to do anything also, considering his age and his big frame. Nobody is a robot.

Of course, but I think the point I am making the teams fitness level has dropped significantly from the last season. We were on level with the top teams, now we are clearly worse. It can be seen on everything, top speed, quickness, stamina etc. We are lacking in so many areas. We aren't even better physically than Bruges or any other lower tier team.

Last season we dominated not just with skills but physically.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Of course, but I think the point I am making the teams fitness level has dropped significantly from the last season. We were on level with the top teams, now we are clearly worse. It can be seen on everything, top speed, quickness, stamina etc. We are lacking in so many areas. We aren't even better physically than Bruges or any other lower tier team.

That's true. We need to find out the reason why that happens. And once you look at it, it's not hard to see where this comes from.

To start, you have Yamal and his injury, plus that now he thinks of himself as a star which is a separate issue. A weaker version in all aspects to last season's player.

Then you have missing Raphinha and having Rashford instead who is not even 1/3 of the pressing beast Raphinha is or was last season at least.

No 3, short squad leads to certain players being overplayed.

No 4, last season factors in too. It's much tougher to tie 2 back to back season at the same intensity level. Especially when you count argument No 3. No 3 + No 4 also lead to a spike in injuries.

No 5, Olmo's shite performances at CAM, much worse than lasst season.

No 6, the fact that you don't have any other plan means you need to put in a big shift in all games, no matter the opponent. It becomes tougher if high energy pressing is central to pretty much everything your style amounts to. Even likes of Elche or some other newly promoted side can cut through our defense at will if pressing is not top notch even in these "on paper" very easy games.

And there's probably more to it, losing Martinez in the backline plays a part also, Lewandowski 1 year older, not playing home games on Camp Nou which could have helped the team more in difficult moments, and so on.

It's gonna be a long season. Blaming the squad and the lack of transfers, meh, this was always a big constraint, and all of our managers suffered for it, all the way down to Koeman 4 years ago. This is not some sudden problem that appeared out of the blue to derail Flick. It is known and documented from the start due to Barcelona's most feared terrorist in history, Bartomeu.
 
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