Champions League 25/26

Winner?

  • Total voters
    36
T

Temptation

Well-known member
KingLeo10 said:
Past Prime Messi/ old Messi didn't get shut down by him in those CL games and the WC game. And when it comes to dribbling, he backs away a lot.

Which makes me think he'd struggle (lose duels more often than win at least) versus prime versions of GOAT attackers. Some of the other names like Nesta, Maldini and co won a fair amount of duels against the likes of R9, Maradona etc.

And Ramos had to go against Messi (and R10) while Pique versus CR7.

VVD just doesn't have the resume against GOAT attackers.
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Messi wasn't even up against VVD in those games.

He played much deeper in both the games.

And that Free Kick has nothing to do with VVD.

He backs away initially waiting for the right time to intervene. It's the smartest thing to do.
 
T

Temptation

Well-known member
Waiting for the perfect time to stop him. High IQ defending. @KingLeo10

And the likes of Ramos got cooked by Messi consistently. And they actually faced him directly unlike VVD in those 2 games.

Maldini is the GOAT defender overall but I see him as more of an LB even though he was great as a CB in the second part of his career. Peak Maldini was an LB. Nesta was better at CB than him.

Nesta, like I said is right up there with VVD for me. They are the 2 best CBs I have ever seen. I'm too young for Baresi.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1958922117795504473
 
KingLeo10

KingLeo10

Senior Member
Temptation said:
Messi wasn't even up against VVD in those games.

He played much deeper in both the games.

And that Free Kick has nothing to do with VVD.

He backs away initially waiting for the right time to intervene. It's the smartest thing to do.
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His role as the main CB is to shut down the best attacker on opposite team. He was too afraid to engage with Messi because he likes to back away from skilled players a lot (even turned his back to Vinicius too for the CL final goal lol, and Vinicius is not even THAT skilled). Works against very fast but one dimensional players like Mbappe or Haaland but not so much against GOAT tier attackers.

Also, Messi got in behind the defense for the other goal v Pool at Camp Nou.
 
jamrock

jamrock

Senior Member
Temptation said:
He can defend half the pitch singlehandedly against even the fastest attackers like Mbappe and Traore.

He rarely gets booked, commits fouls or makes reckless tackles.

He singlehandedly organizes our defense. When he gets injured we fight for top 4.

Outstanding on the ball and has brilliant diagonals.

Scores important headers and always turns up in finals, big games and clutch moments.

Tall, rapid, strongest player in the game. Generational physical specimen.

Pique was toast against fast attackers with quick feet and Ramos was extremely volatile and lacked discipline. Diego Godin was a better pure defender than both. Ramos was a better overall package than Godin obviously.

Van Dijk has no flaws in his game and is very complete. The ease with which he dominates attackers has never been seen before. He rarely breaks a sweat for 90 minutes.

Every defender looks class next to him. Whether it was Matip, Konate, Lovren or Gomez. All of which struggled without him.

Prime Van Dijk was untouchable. Opposition fans waited years for a player to dribble past him. When he finally got dribbled by someone (Perisic), it went viral.

Watch him for 90 minutes and you'll see why he's so special. We have opponents and active players talking about his aura lol.
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The fact that you had to bring up traore, even though I get what you are saying, just speaks to what I mentioned.

Attackers these days are simply not as good, as what was before.


Those two had
against prime Ronaldo and Messi
Eto'o
suarez
Lewa
Droga
Benzema
Villa

I could go on, a defender has to be judged by the players he came up against.

World of defensive between those names and even prime Mbappe.

He's still great though
 
jamrock

jamrock

Senior Member
PS I don't know how many fast attackers cooked prime pique but they were few and far between.

Ramos disciple doesn't take away from him being a great defender, that's just his style.

Plus every defender who played with those two looked good when they were in there Prime
 
T

Temptation

Well-known member
jamrock said:
The fact that you had to bring up traore, even though I get what you are saying, just speaks to what I mentioned.

Attackers these days are simply not as good, as what was before.


Those two had
against prime Ronaldo and Messi
Eto'o
suarez
Lewa
Droga
Benzema
Villa

I could go on, a defender has to be judged by the players he came up against.

World of defensive between those names and even prime Mbappe.

He's still great though
Click to expand...
Traore is insane on 1v1s with space.

Even though he's crap otherwise.

He's probably better at that specific thing than many all time greats.

VVD has faced Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Neymar, Mbappe, Suarez, Benzema, Zlatan, Kane, Aguero, KDB, etc.
 
jamrock

jamrock

Senior Member
Temptation said:
Traore is insane on 1v1s with space.

Even though he's crap otherwise.

He's probably better at that specific thing than many all time greats.

VVD has faced Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Neymar, Mbappe, Suarez, Benzema, Zlatan, Kane, Aguero, KDB, etc.
Click to expand...

More than half of those names weren't prime and Messi had him in the camp nou
 
jamrock

jamrock

Senior Member
Temptation said:
Suarez and Zlatan were past their peak.

Messi and Ronaldo were towards the end of their peak but still far from finished. It was the last part of their peak.

All the other names were in their peak.
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That's 4, play Neymar who was been subprime since he left Barca, bar maybe 1 season.

I really don't know how often if ever he played again lewa TBH.

Adding KDB again just proves my point, you have to be stretching, that's like me adding lampard etc.

Just be honest the individual attackers he had to face was a step down for those that came before him.
 
FC B

FC B

Senior Member
An unimpressive LFC with yet another win very late in the game this season. Till now they look poorer than they did a year ago in the first season of Slot, better not be the case with Barca and Flick too.
 
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