Hans-Dieter Flick

[serghei]

On Frenkie v Zubi.

Frenkie this season so far has more tackles/intercptions per 90 than Zubi and more recoveries also for example.

I like Zubi and he fits Arsenal well but he has nowhere near the job to try and do as Pedri and Frenkie have to do at Barca on both sides of ball.

But how do we fix Pedri and De Jong having to do so much leg work without adding a stronger properly box to box midfielder? Don't think it's possible. Arsenal have Rice. Rice is a physical player with a big athletic presence in midfield. This is felt big time during the game.

With Olmo, Casado and Fermin we have none of that.

 

[JamDav1982]

But how do we fix Pedri and De Jong having to do so much leg work without adding a stronger phisical midfielder? Don't think it's possible. Arsenal have Rice. Rice is a physical player with a big athletic presence in midfield. This is felt big time during the game.

With Olmo, Casado and Fermin we have none of that.

Arsenal have a team full of them and best defence in the world of physical giants.

Likes of Timber looks class for them and levels above Kounde for example. Absolute ox.

Barca need to give Pedri/FDJ the best chance to dominate ball in games as can to make up for it as Barca going to lose physicaly battle to most top teams if dont. All over park.

 

[khaled_a_d]

I agree it's tough to land a top DM. It's easier to get a CM-AM but that player to work will need to be far stronger than Olmo. More like Merino. Or like Goretzka was. Or Fabian Ruiz. Someone with physical presence off the ball. Not a softer technical AM.

We are linked with Fisnik who is 1.88 cm and seems strong, but he playa like a SS type of AM. There plenty of talents to find in that position than a DM that would move Pedri-Frenkie duo.

I don't agree with midfield being a priority over attack. We essentially have 3 first team attackers under contract next year. That is Lamine, Raphinha & Torres. Rashford is on loan, Lewa won't be renewed. 4th is Roony if he continues to orove his worth. We can't go in the summer without at least one more addition, preferred two.

 

[JamDav1982]

Fisnik is a striker is he not?

At least this season when top teams have taken notice.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Barcas best players are Pedri, Frenkie, Yamal and Raphinha.

Players need to be brought in to make all of their lives easier and a clear plan of a team built for them.

Flick is trying it.

That is true. Those 4 are the core of the team and probably the most consistent ones among outfield players.

We need more players who are as consistent, and would fit those 4.

 

[khaled_a_d]

But how do we fix Pedri and De Jong having to do so much leg work without adding a stronger properly box to box midfielder? Don't think it's possible.

By closing the space and not making them outnumbered.

Fullbacks and wingers are big factors in that. One player, regardless who he is, won't fix it.

 

[serghei]

By closing the space and not making them outnumbered.

Fullbacks and wingers are big factors in that. One player, regardless who he is, won't fix it.

Top teams have other players that need be blocked also. Like fullbacks. It is traditional for wingers to be primarily tasked with blocking fullbacks. Fullbacks are also busy with opposing wingers. You can't spare a midfielder and be outnumbered in middle of the park as often as we do it.

So when you have Hakimi and Mendes causing havoc, that is mostly on Rashford and Yamal. But when you have 3 vs 2 superiority in midfield that's on the midfield.

What Flick is doing is opposite of Lucho. Lucho plays with 3 midfielders and even brings a new player in midfield play by using a false 9 instead if a traditional winger. Flick does the opposite, dispatches of a midfielder for an extra attacker. Mostly like he did with Bayern when he used all of Gnabry, Lewa, Muller, and Perisic. His system is light in control and midfield dominance, and heavy on pressing and quick transitions.

This gives his teams midfield superiority. That's before wingers and fullbacks get into the mix.

 

[khaled_a_d]

So when you have Hakimi and Mendes causing havoc, that is mostly on Rashford and Yamal. But when you have 3 vs 2 superiority in midfield that's on the midfield.

But this isn't accurate, fullbacks and wingers closes spaces to midfield all the time and make the team more compact, that doesn't mean being an inverted fullback, but about being agile and smart one.
PSG is actually a great example of that, all wingers and fullbacks are in synchronised movement that leaves smaller spaces for midfield to cover.

 

[serghei]

But this isn't accurate, fullbacks and wingers closes spaces to midfield all the time and make the team more compact, that doesn't mean being an inverted fullback, but about being agile and smart one.
PSG is actually a great example of that, all wingers and fullbacks are in synchronised movement that leaves smaller spaces for midfield to cover.

When you defend deeper. Not if you use those attackers to press high.

PSG don't press high that much compared to us. Ferran Torres had 37 pressing runs vs PSG. I doubt Barcola, Ramos, Mayulu had 37 combined. No wonder the man was dead in min 70 or so.

What you say is valid if we'd change our pressing approach. In the entire first half PSG barely pressed us and let our CBs sit on the ball quite a lot. If you do that, sure, this puts the attackers closer to midfield by default almost. This would allow us to reinforce the midfield. But then this is one of the main differences between Spanish and German football style. German style always puts emphasis on phsycality, as the founding element that supports the aggressive press.

 

[khaled_a_d]

When you defend deeper. Not if you use those attackers to press high.

PSG don't press high that much compared to us. Ferran Torres had 37 pressing runs vs PSG. I doubt Barcola, Ramos, Mayulu had 37 combined. No wonder the man was dead in min 70 or so.

What you say is valid if we'd change our pressing approach. In the entire first half PSG barely pressed us and let our CBs sit on the ball quite a lot. If you do that, sure, this puts the attackers closer to midfield by default almost.

It is true regardless the game plan, you need ypur lines closer to each other. One element always affects the other. You press high, you must have a high line, otherwise you leave more space in midfield. You sit a bit deeper, you don't press higher.

The main thing is to be compact as a team, midfield trio does only half of the job, the second half is done by the other two lines. One extra midfielder won't make that much difference if minimal changes are done in defense and attacking approaches.

 

[serghei]

It is true regardless the game plan, you need ypur lines closer to each other. One element always affects the other. You press high, you must have a high line, otherwise you leave more space in midfield. You sit a bit deeper, you don't press higher.

The main thing is to be compact as a team, midfield trio does only half of the job, the second half is done by the other two lines. One extra midfielder won't make that much difference if minimal changes are done in defense and attacking approaches.

Even if you have a high line if you constantly press absurdly high... the team is longer than ideal, unless you put that line at halfway line. Which is not recommended in the first place.

PSG is simply smarter than us with how they alter between pressing and compact defending. They will often press more when teams are more tired, many better variations on tactical level.

Arsenal are smarter too. Another team that would switch between different approaches super fast.

They have better players obviously, but there's more to it. Also worth nothing that the best Liverpool under Klopp was with 3 hard intense players in midfield. Henderson, Fabinho, Milner. Ball winners, hard defenders. Not a playmaker in sight there.

Flick is unfortunately overly ambitious to the point of naive. There is always a trade-off involved. Everyone said how much better Klopp Liverpool would have been with a better midfielder on the ball, but players who are better on the ball, or very creative, come a cost in other areas.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Even if you have a high line if you constantly press absurdly high... the team is longer than ideal, unless you put that line at halfway line. Which is not recommended in the first place.

PSG is simply smarter than us with how they alter between pressing and compact defending. They will often press more when teams are more tired, many better variations on tactical level.

Arsenal are smarter too. Another team that would switch between different approaches super fast.

PSG are smarter, and also vastly superior squad all around. I had them as favourites almost all of last season.

But pressing or sitting deeper isn't my point here. It is simply that there are many alternatives to improve midfield, rather than signing a 3rd midfielder. Improving other areas will automatically take of the load from Pedri & Frenkie

 

[serghei]

PSG are smarter, and also vastly superior squad all around. I had them as favourites almost all of last season.

But pressing or sitting deeper isn't my point here. It is simply that there are many alternatives to improve midfield, rather than signing a 3rd midfielder. Improving other areas will automatically take of the load from Pedri & Frenkie

I know, but imo if you'd give the same set of players to both, say PSG squad, Flick would go all in, stuff Barcola and Doue both, drop a midfielder, ask them to press non stop, and end up losing most of the time vs this Lucho PSG team. This PSG is simply a superior side in most if not all aspects to the PSG side he faced as a Bayern coach also. And he didn't really dominate even that PSG with Tuchel.

I do not think Flick would play Fabian Ruiz plus Vitinha and Neves and keep a player as talented as Barcola on the bench. No way.

He is a top manager, but there is something off compared with the best of the lot. Of course, we're talking about best 2-3 managers already, masters of the game so to speak.

 

[jamrock]

I'm the only Barcelona fan on here allowed to speak about PSG with any authority, lol I'm kidding.

Some interesting views.
It's also interested how when speaking about them some go straight to their FBs, they look at the XI specifically & say that's the one thing we don't have compared to them, so that must be their secret sauce.

 

[serghei]

Of course if you have a player like Hakimi instead of Balde for example and some others on different positions improves things. But then if you'd have these players the target would be far higher for Flick. We'd not tolerate bad seasons lightly. Conceding 7 vs Inter, etc.